Extreme Terrain
4x4Wire Trail Talk Forums: Jeep, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pajero, Isuzu, Kia, 4WD, 4x4, SUV, Off-Road and OutdoorWire Forums


Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Tracking vehicle maintenance history #770271 12/07/06 03:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5
B
Bagu Offline OP
Need a Spot
I recently purchased a '95 Rodeo which is in excellent shape. Unfortunately the previous owner has no vehicle history from it at all. The CarFax report says the vehicle has only had 2 owners in its life, and used to be an Enterprise Fleet vehicle at one time.

The CarFax report is pretty vague when it comes to what maintenance was done to the vehicle, but there must be something out there with all these shops that gather VIN information of cars they service.

Do you think its just best to take the vehicle to the dealership and have their service department give it a good once-over?

Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Bagu] #770272 12/07/06 03:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,268
mlclark Offline
Isuzu Moderator
*****
Carfax is not magic. It is just a database of where it has been titled and when that title transferred. Part of their sales pitch is to make it sound like they can find "bad" things. Those things are transfers, or information mismatches. Things like mainteince do not get registered anywhere. Heck, unless it was deemed totaled by insurance and reported to the state, even massive repair work won't show up. Body shops are under no obligation to report what they repair as long as someone is paying for it.

Don't get me wrong, I used Carfax heavily when I bought my last truck. But I was looking for things like vehicles that had done the auction circuit. When a vehicle travels from the east coast, has 3 transfers in as many months you know something is not kosher with the vehicles. Fleet vehicles are often suspect, but if it was just a rental it is better than something that was used in a work/business fleet.

As for having a mechanic look at it, you could. Although, that should have been done before you bought it as any problems now are wholly owned by you. A dealer may be able to pull information regarding recalls if they are nice. But, remember it is a 12yo truck and you have to take that into consideration with anything you find.

Beyond that, if it seems like a good truck just enjoy it and drive it.

Good Luck,
Michael

Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Bagu] #770273 12/07/06 06:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,652
W
Wayne Offline
Roll Me Over
On top of the above excellent advice, I will add:

CarFax is a tool, they overly promote themselves, and they are not as good as advertised. They also don't stand behind their guarantee unless you have real good evidence, you've covered all the fine print, and you have a good lawyer. There are also other companies besides them.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/carfax_inacc.html

And from: http://public.findlaw.com/congen/caw_automobiles_buying_used.htm
The websites www.carfax.com and www.autocheck.com sell information on the history of vehicles gathered from state motor vehicle departments and other sources. These reports are helpful but incomplete-they do not guarantee that a vehicle is accident-free.


[color:"white"]? 04 Rodeo DI ?[/color] 75k mi, body damage on the 1st weekend I got it.
Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Wayne] #770274 12/07/06 06:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,268
mlclark Offline
Isuzu Moderator
*****
To add to Wayne's info above, who added to mine...

That is exactly it. Carfax is only one tool. Any competent mechanic should be able to tell if a vehicle has has serious crash damage. There is not a body shop out there that can make it perfect without leaving some sort of superficial clue that work has been done. Heck you can do it if you know what to look for.

It is ultimately up to the buyer to inspect or have the vehicle inspected.

Insofar as Carfax being "incomplete" that is not quite true, or not quite fair to Carfax. They are limited by the information and databases they have. This includes the age of the data, how a state codes things and even if/when/how a car is considered to be totalled/salvaged/ect. For what they charge, I think they provide exactly that amount of value. I know I would not want to spend my time researching the title history of a used vehicle (it is possible as all the info is public record).

To bring it slightly back onto track here, just get the vehicle looked over (if it makes you feel better), change the oil and drive it. A dealership is not needed, if you have a mechanic you usually visit.

Good Luck,
Michael

Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Bagu] #770275 12/07/06 08:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,652
W
Wayne Offline
Roll Me Over
I will agree, it's not CarFax's fault when unscrupulous dealers wash titles through several states to make them come out clean. For that I blame
- Unscrupulous dealers
- States
- Congress that consistently makes noise about a national database, but never does.
- People who get upset after hurricane season when they buy bad car, complain, hear Congress make noise but not do anything, then vote the same people back in.
- CarFax, for not being more up-front about what they cover. (because they want to make money, which is their purpose)
- And people who unplug their odometers from their transmission. I've known more than one person.

In other words, we get what we pay *and vote* for. ;-)

CarFax only works when vehicles are bought and sold honestly, and that's all they promise. Here's some more info--if you want to get your money back, you have to do a lot of work and prepare to be disappointed. A washed title that doesn't go back father on the odometer than the previous title? Not covered. (psst....want to buy a 1993 Amgio with 25,000 gently driven miles on it?)

click here for the whole story
Ron Pasquale got a clean title to the used Lexus RX 300 he bought in March 2004. Soon afterward, he discovered that the vehicle's odometer had been rolled back. And soon after that, he learned that the 2002 sport wagon, for which he had paid $29,700, had been wrecked and rebuilt in Georgia.

The vehicle history report he bought from Carfax Inc. didn't identify either problem. But when Pasquale asked Carfax to honor its buyback guarantee, he was told he didn't qualify.

Bureau of Motor Vehicles officials in Ohio, where Pasquale had purchased the RX 300 from a private seller, told him state laws that govern dealership sales do not cover "casual" sales by individuals. Now Pasquale is suing Gino Bracaloni, who sold him the RX 300, in an Ohio court. He alleges that Bracaloni knew of but did not disclose the odometer tampering. One problem, Pasquale says: Process servers can't find Bracaloni to serve him with the lawsuit.

Pasquale's ordeal reflects the twin dilemmas of odometer tampering and title washing. The practices cost dealers and consumers billions of dollars a year, industry experts say. "I'm not going to drop it," says Pasquale, 56, an auto parts salesman from Nashville, Tenn. "I can't live with myself if I let the guys off the hook. They'll just do it to somebody else."

Some states issue clean titles to vehicles that have been wrecked and rebuilt. The industry opposes sales of those vehicles as undamaged. Since mid-2004, Georgia has required a title to state if a vehicle has been rebuilt or salvaged.

The National Automobile Dealers Association has lobbied without success for a federal law that would similarly mark the titles of wrecked vehicles. Such a designation would carry forward when a vehicle is sold across state lines.

Pasquale says the RX 300 he bought was advertised online as having 10,800 miles on its odometer. But when he took the vehicle to a Lexus dealership in Nashville to get a spare key made, a check of the RX 300's vehicle identification number disclosed a mileage discrepancy. That launched Pasquale on a quest to investigate the vehicle's history. He traced the RX 300 to its original owners in New York, to its wreck and repair in Atlanta, to the Lexus dealerships that serviced it and to the two salvage auctions that sold it.

Pasquale says the Lexus dealership where the car was towed after the wreck in August 2003 told him that the vehicle's odometer registered 29,870 miles when it crashed. The title Pasquale got for the RX 300 listed Lenherr Motors, a used-car dealership in Zanesville, Ohio, as the vehicle's owner, his lawsuit alleges. Yet Pasquale concedes that he believed he was buying the vehicle from Bracaloni. The dealership's owner, Rafik Mirmohamed, says he never bought or sold the vehicle or had it in his inventory. Mirmohamed says Bracaloni, a friend of Mirmohamed's brother, improperly used the store's name to buy the Lexus from a salvage auction.
.....
Carfax offers to buy back any vehicle for which it researches a history that does not identify problems such as odometer rollback or major collision damage. But a state department of motor vehicles must have issued a salvage or junk title or received a damage report, Carfax says. Pasquale's Lexus doesn't qualify for the guarantee, says Chris Basso, a Carfax spokesman.

-----------------------------
CarFax's Follow-up / Rebuttal
-----------------------------

To the Editor:
In reference to "The twisted history of a used Lexus RX 300," (April 18), Carfax would like to clarify the terms and conditions of the Carfax Buyback Guarantee.

The article said that Carfax offers to buy back any vehicle for which the Carfax Vehicle History Report "does not identify problems such as odometer rollback or major collision damage."

The Carfax Buyback Guarantee does not cover odometer rollbacks. What it does cover are the title brands "exceeds mechanical limits" and "not actual miles" issued by a state department of motor vehicles. (My note: Which only occurs of you roll the miles back prior to mileage listed on the current title, then re-title it.)

In addition, a salvage, junk or rebuilt title issued by a state department of motor vehicles is included under the terms of the guarantee, not general "major collision damage" as implied by your article.

The guarantee covers most incidents in which a state department of motor vehicles issues a branded title that Carfax fails to include in the Carfax Vehicle History Report at the time the vehicle is purchased.

Our database contains information from all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Wayne] #770276 12/07/06 08:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,868
Jim_Paget Offline
Roll Me Over
In a prior life, I purchased and assisted in the implementation of a vehicle maintenance tracking system for a major U.S. firm.

It is a time-consuming process to both implement and maintain such a system. More to your point, the information value of the data is most important to the owner of the equipment. Each of us owns one, or at most a few vehicles that are effectively the same. There is nothing that is going to be of value to a given shop from gathering the information. You are the one who is going to make purchasing and/or maintenance decisions concerning your vehicle, the shop isn't.

In a fleet situation, the fleet owner can look at say, 100 transmissions or engines or axles of a given model and decide whether or not to buy 20 additional units the following year with the particular component. The maintenance shop may also make decisions about stocking levels of particular parts.

In the case of an individual owning one or a few units, there is no value to be gained from providing you the information. It may well be that the manufacturer is gathering data from their captive dealerships, but that same manufacturer may well have a financial disincentive to publicly publish aggregate data.


Jim Paget
88 YJ with a few changes

www.rrr4x4.com
Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Jim_Paget] #770277 12/08/06 01:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,285
CPOM Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Just bring it it a nearby "townie" mechanic and have them do the fluids (engine, axles, trans, t-case). The dealership is usually more expesnive for the same type of work.


CHRIS
98 Amigo, 92 Pup

need a pickup 1st gen fuel level sender
Re: Tracking vehicle maintenance history [Re: Jim_Paget] #770278 12/12/06 11:20 AM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,030
randii Offline
4x4Wire.com Managing Editor Emeritus
Quote
In a prior life, I purchased and assisted in the implementation of a vehicle maintenance tracking system for a major U.S. firm.

Jim, was that for oxen, mules, or horses? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Most dealers keep a pretty thorough database -- it is worth asking the seller if they serviced the vehicle at the dealer. *I* wouldn't (I'm too cheap for that!), but if the seller did, he can request a summary of the service registered to that VIN.

Randii


Randy Burleson
4x4Wire Managing Editor Emeritus
Mongrel Isuzu Amigo







4x4Wire Social:

| 4x4Wire on FaceBook |


OutdoorWire, 4x4Wire, JeepWire, TrailTalk, MUIRNet-News, and 4x4Voice are all trademarks and publications of OutdoorWire, Inc. and MUIRNet Consulting.
Copyright (c) 1999-2019 OutdoorWire, Inc and MUIRNet Consulting - All Rights Reserved, no part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without express written permission
You may link freely to this site, but no further use is allowed without the express written permission of the owner of this material.
All corporate trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.007s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.6338 MB (Peak: 0.7437 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2026-06-20 20:18:09 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS