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Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. #807510 04/23/07 05:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 119
S
Summermedic Offline OP
Wheeler
Can anyone help with a possible cause of my symptoms?

2000 Cherokee Sport 4.0. 88,000 miles, over heated once since I had it. Bad water pump. January 2006

Water in oil started a few months ago. 4 weeks ago replaced head gasket. 900 miles water in oil again. Did not have head checked. No visible cracks around valves, filed the head with fine file. Checked with straight egde. Filled engine coolant. After it was full found bubbles in radiator with engine running. Oh just in case you ask, I did make sure that all the bubbles from filling were gone before starting the engine.

What is the possibility this is a cracked block? Is it more possible it is a warped head as opposed to a cracked head.

Do you guys have past experience with this or similar?


1990 Toyota 4x4 22 RE. My life!!!! My project continues! Always. I'm convinced it is an addiction. Still Running great after a year.

2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport. STOCK version.

Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: Summermedic] #807511 04/23/07 06:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
How much water in the oil? Did you cause a scratch with that damn file? A very tiny scratch can cause small bubbles and a water leak.
I would first check my sparks for a bit of rust on the internal end to see if rust or liquid was on one of them.
Most cracks are on the head.
Did you replace the thermostat with a new one when you did the head job?
Why did you use a FILE on the head surface? Seems a little harsh.
Did you put any sealant on the head gasket when installing? THAT alone could be your problem. Head gaskets should be installed with all surfaces DRY.
Did you follow torque sequences when installing the head bolts?
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: BigJim] #807512 04/23/07 06:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
Also is the oil level a quart over full? How much coolant is missing and how much over full is the oil level?
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: Summermedic] #807513 04/24/07 06:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35
D
doublediamonds Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
you could try doing a compression test on the cylynders, dont know if any damage would occur but i think you should be fine, but it will tell you the general area that the leak is so you know where to look for whatever is causing it


If you cant get there in a jeep you probably dont need to get there
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: doublediamonds] #807514 04/24/07 02:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
Sorry DD but it WILL NOT tell a damn thing if all he has is small bubbles..
I'd sure like him to answer the above questions.
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: BigJim] #807515 04/24/07 06:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35
D
doublediamonds Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
well my bad i was just thinking about doing that to my car back in the day to find the blow, worked on that, thought i would pass it along but no idea wether or not it works on this type of problem, like i said


If you cant get there in a jeep you probably dont need to get there
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: BigJim] #807516 04/27/07 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 119
S
Summermedic Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote
How much water in the oil? Did you cause a scratch with that damn file? A very tiny scratch can cause small bubbles and a water leak.
I would first check my sparks for a bit of rust on the internal end to see if rust or liquid was on one of them.
Most cracks are on the head.
Did you replace the thermostat with a new one when you did the head job?
Why did you use a FILE on the head surface? Seems a little harsh.
Did you put any sealant on the head gasket when installing? THAT alone could be your problem. Head gaskets should be installed with all surfaces DRY.
Did you follow torque sequences when installing the head bolts?
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


Lots of water; No visible leaks, 2 gallons well over the full mark on the dip stick.

I did replace the thermostat.

My father used the file very gently just to smooth off the sealant from the last gasket. I just ment to say that there was no sealant left behind.

No over the counter or after market sealer was used the head was dry.

I will check the spark plugs when I pull this apart. But i didn't notice anything last month when I had them out. At some point would I have noticed steam out of my tail pipe? Cause there isn't. The last time I did a head gasket it was in a chevy truck with an in-line 4 I had water in the oil, and steam out the pipe.

Should these cracks be visible? The head looks good. There is absolutely no loss of power, it does not run rough. The jeep still runs like it did when it was new, no change.

Yes the torque pattern was followed to the T. Only problem was the first step required 21 ft. lbs. we all know that digital torque wrenches start at 25 ft lbs. so i went with that.

This is the exact same issue I had before I did the head gasket last month. Maybe some jacka-- should have sent his head out while it was off the first time. Thats what I get for rushing!!!!

Sorry it took so long to get back to this thread, very busy here.


1990 Toyota 4x4 22 RE. My life!!!! My project continues! Always. I'm convinced it is an addiction. Still Running great after a year.

2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport. STOCK version.

Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: Summermedic] #807517 04/27/07 01:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
Man! This sounds like a crack in the block.. Since the coolant seems to be getting directly into the crankcase and not going into the combustion chamber.
Most head gasket leaks cause the higher pressure from the combustion chamber to enter the coolant passages. You do not give any indication of pressure buildup in the coolant..
Such as blowing steam out the overflow.
Houston we have a problem.
Sounds like you and dad know enough to have installed the gasket properly.. I'd be taking it off again and looking for cracks..
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: BigJim] #807518 04/27/07 04:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43
LittleMuleCJ7 Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
It appears all the basis were covered and you have some work ahead of you.

My .02 - It may be my OCD, but any time I pull a head/block, I trash the head bolts and use new ones. I have heard over time they distort from the heat and so on; elongating.

Last edited by LittleMuleCJ7; 04/27/07 04:55 PM.

OIIIIIIIO

82' CJ-7, SOA and many other goodies.
Re: Cracked vs. Warped head vs. cracked block. [Re: LittleMuleCJ7] #807519 04/27/07 06:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 119
S
Summermedic Offline OP
Wheeler
I did replace the head bolts. 110lbs of pressure on them for 7 years yeah they gotta go.

Now I was just thinking, going by memory, the left side of the head has water jackets and the far left is open for oil drainage. If the left side is warped it would cause the water under pressure to seep into the oil drain area but not into the combustion chamber. Again if my serves me right. What do you guys think?


1990 Toyota 4x4 22 RE. My life!!!! My project continues! Always. I'm convinced it is an addiction. Still Running great after a year.

2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport. STOCK version.

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