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Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
#847470
11/17/07 04:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11
OP
Need a Spot
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2000 Sportage, 4x4, manual, 2-door convertible top 137,000 miles. Symptoms: 1. Barely starts, extra long cranking time. 2. Barely runs, absolutely no power. 3. P0343 Camshaft Sensor 4. P0326 Knock Sensor
The vehicle immediately gives P0343 within a few seconds of the motor starting. This code means the ECM has not received a signal from the camshaft poaition sensor after more than 200 CRANKshaft revolutions have occurred. Basically, the computer cannot read the camshaft signal. Without a camshaft signal, the car cannot determine igniton timing, so, of course it cannot run properly. I have replaced the camshaft sensor, replaced the entire wiring harness to the camshaft sensor, and tried 3 different ECM's. No change. I disassembeld the motor to verfiy the timing belt is correct, the timing (position of the pulleys) is correct, removed the valve cover and cyl. 1 spark plug to verfiy that the timing pulley are in the correct position by checking that the engine is in cyl. 1 TopDead Center, and the valves are positioned correctly at that point. The pulleys are correct and the valves are correct when the engine is at TDC. Finally, i verified that the little metal pin attached to the rear of the exhaust camshaft that triggers the camshaft sensor is attached and present. So, to summarize, the engine is in proper time, everything is in the proper position, i have replaced the camshaft sensor, it's wiring, and i've even enlisted the help of an electrical engineer friend and his oscilloscope to verify and measure that there IS a camshaft signal present at the ECM, and there ARE CRANKshaft signals present at the ECM, and measured all the other engine sensors (TPS, MAFS, O2s, Coolant sensor, etc. are all present and measuring properly. The Knock Sensor code is also intriguing, because i changed the knock sensor and it's wiring harness, as well, and it still gives codes. All this troubleshooting lead me to believe the ECM itself was bad, but ive now bought and tried 2 other ECM's, and nothing changes. Why does the ECM give a code that says "i cannot see a camshaft position sensor signal" when i can see it clearly on an oscilloscope? I even disassembled one ECM, and again with the help of the electrical engineer, verified the camshaft signal actually makes it through the gigantic 88-pin ECM connector, and measured the signals from INSIDE the ECM. I find it almost impossible that 3 ECM's could all be dead. Especially since i've tried all 3 with both the original wiring harness, and the new wiring harness.
Ive already bought a new vehicle, as the Kia was my daily driver, and i couldnt afford to rent a car any longer. Does ANYBODY have any idea what could be wrong? I've had the vehicle at 3, that's right THREE Kia dealers, and also at 4, that's right FOUR independent shops, and they all scratch their heads in disbelief. The independents say "Sorry we cant fix it" and the Kia Dealers all say "sorry, we cant fix it, go to the sales office and buy a new Kia". ????
I love this vehicle and want to keep it, but, what can i do?! Can you help me, or, does anybody wanna pay lots of money for a Sportage that won't run? It's all original eveything else is in good shape. Thanks. Kyle
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Re: Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
[Re: KyleLovesHisKia]
#847471
11/17/07 11:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 894
Rock Warrior
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when you replaced the ecm did you check the harness connector to see if any of the pins are damaged at the ecm ?, you don't won't to crack the engine for more then 10 seconds you can damage the main bearings on the crank from lack of oil. also disconnect the battery turn the lights switch on and leave on for 10 min. turn off switch and reconnect battery. see if anything gets better. John
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Re: Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
[Re: KyleLovesHisKia]
#847472
11/18/07 12:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,396
Body Damage is Cool
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I'm sure when Axe gets on he can give you some advice. He know the electronics of thiese better than anyone I know. Dennis
95 Sportage, gone but not forgotten. 98 Jeep TJ, 4" Zone springs with RC Long arms, Ford 8.8", 4.56 gears & Detroit locker rear, D30, 4.56 & Detroit Trutrack front.
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Re: Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
[Re: DennisThompson]
#847473
11/18/07 03:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 616
Rock Warrior
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You don't have a plugged cat/exhaust do you?
08' Jeep Wrangler 64' Plymouth Sport Fury 383 58' Triumph TR-3A
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Re: Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
[Re: Iron]
#847474
11/18/07 08:02 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Body Damage is Cool
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You don't have a plugged cat/exhaust do you? That was my first reaction.... but the error codes puzzeled me.... an other thought ( that probably is wrong ) is if the other ecu's tested were the right ones.... also if we forget the error codes for a while.. what about fuel pump and the injection system.... And a question... If the ecu was ok.. missing the crankshaft signal wouldnt put it on a "limp home" mode??? the same that happens with other error codes???
'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS http://members.cardomain.com/fokion
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Re: Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
[Re: fokion]
#847475
11/19/07 01:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,497
Kia Moderator Emeritus
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Interesting problem. Has me puzzled. But I would suspect one of two things. Either a grounding issue with the sensors or a possible B+ problem going to the ECM. With a DMM measure the resistance from Pin 3 (Black wire) from the camshaft position sensor to the frame. If it doesn't measure 1 Ohm or less you have a grounding issue. Send me an e-mail at mjats@juno.com and I'll forward to you the ECM section of the electrical manual. If no grounding issue is found then you should measure all the B+ voltages to the ECM.
1998 Sportage - Gone. 2004 Honda Civic Coupe. 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara - She got it.
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Re: Desperation post....Kia for Sale if someone can't help me.
[Re: Axe Man]
#847476
11/22/07 07:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Need a Spot
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I have a post on here about my sportage died. I have the same problem. I had cam sensor and knock sensor code when it died. I was driving down the road and it just stalled. I have replaced the cam sensor, crank sensor, and ecm. I have checked resistance and power to the ecm. Everything checks out good. I have done most of what you have done and nothing had worked. I have had a mechanic look at it and he is lost. I do have a question for you did you check the compression, because I haven`t checked mine yet. I also don`t seem to have a injector pulse. If I put fuel in the intake it still will not fire. Please keep me posted on your pregress.
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