wheel spacers? FERGETABOUTIT!

TYTO -- I have a friend who just recently removed the cobbled togeher 4" lift on his TJ (he was running 33" tires). He installed a 6.5" long arm lift with adjustable arms. Some lift kits come with an adjustable track bar, so ask them. Unfortunately, I don't remember which brand lift he just put on -- he's running 35" tires now with no problems.

You mentioned a 5" lift and asked about a body lift. If it were me, I'd install a 5" or 6" longarm lift and mount the tires, and then go off-roading where I would be flexing the suspension. See if the 35" tires rub at all. The front tires will be more likely to rub than the rear tires. A front tire will be most prone to rubbing when it is compressed up into the wheel well and you're in a turn. If you need more clearance for the tires, then consider a body lift.

If you do decide that you also need a body lift, then use the minimum lift that will do the job. You're right, the body lift gives some advantages, like cleaning the vehicle, running hoses and wires udner the body, and getting to some parts. However, it may also cause problems in some areas that you may have to sort out.

#1 -- Radiator. If you lift the body, the radiator fan may hit the bottom of the fan shroud. You may have to lower the shroud or the engire radiator. Also, The radiator hoses will be a tighter stretch. The fan shroud may or may not be a problem if it's only a 1" body lift, but a 2" or 3" lift will almost certainly require some adjustment.

#2 -- Transmission and transfer case shifter linkages. Since the holes in the floorboard through which the shifters go will be farther away from the tranny and t-case, you may have to enlarge the holes in the floorboard in order to be able to get full throw on the shifters. Again, the more body lift you put in, the more likely there is to be a problem.

#3 - Clutch Linkage. The clutch pedal and its linkage is attached to the body, whereas the clutch is attached to the drive line. A body lift increases the distance between those two points, with potential problems. If one has a hydraulic clutch, it can usually be solved by replacing the hydraulic line.

I didn't mean to be a hardass when I last posted about gears. It's just that I have seen so many guys go with larger tires without regearing, and they have ALWAYS been dissatisfied with the adverse impact on power and drivability. Those 35" tires are a major increase in tire size, so it will have a big effect on your vehicle. Also, keep in mind that you will probably have to replace the speedometer gear after going to bigger tires, unless you enjoy meeting a lot of the guys with the guns and badges!!

In any event, you also mentioned lockers. Since you're new to the game, I'm assuming that you are not capable of setting up a rear end, and will therefore have a shop do the work. For most lockers (except lunchbox lockers), replacing the open differential carier with a locker means that essentially the same labor will be needed that is needed when one changes the ring and pinion gears. So, if you have the gears and lockers installed at the same time, you'll save a lot on labor costs.

Regarding aftermarket bumpers. Might I suggest the "Wilderness" line made by Garvin. They're not cheap, but they are stout as hell, and they don't just bolt on with a couple of bolts. The rear one can be had with a swing away tire carrier that will hold up to a 35" tire, and that takes the load off your body. However, there are at least four companies that make good strong aftermarket bumpers.

Regarding the square holes in bumpers. A lot of aftermarket bumpers come with 2" receivers made into them. Don't get the cheap tube bumpers with a receiver. Get heavy duty ones. Some guys use the rear receiver to tow a small utility trailer to keep camping gear in when they go on trips. But most of the guys that I know (myself included) use those receivers for recovery. You can buy tow hooks that slide into the receiver just like a hitch, or you can get a D-ring clevis mount that slides in them. I have both for mine.

Regarding your list of modifications -- any decent 8000-lb or higher winch will work -- get one of the brand names and you'll be fine. You don't need the most expensive one out there, because you won't be using it on a daily basis! However, first among your purchases should be tow hooks for both ends of the Jeep, a recovery strap (2" witch is fine for a CJ or Wrangler-size Jeep), tree saver strap, a couple of D-rings, a snatch block and heavy leather work gloves. Getting a "winch set" will get you most of those things at a reduced cost.

If you can't afford a winch right now, then get a come-along. You can get a good one for 40-50 bucks, and it will get you out of trouble, although with a lot more work and re-rigging than a winch. But they sure beat a long walk home!

I have the stock axles on the TJ, Dana 30 front and 35 in the rear.
The conditions I get involved in are up hill climbs, including simi large rocks, river bottoms, mud terrain, and I do drive it to work and club meeting on occasions. The gear ratio will only allow for a top speed of 60mph, of course adding the 7mph that I need to consider in that is hidden. I still need to get the conversion kit.
It still is fun to drive and it is not immobilized for sure. But the deli ma still exist that there is a lot of modification to accommodate these tires.
I don't seem to have a problem in 4low and first or second gear to get over obstacles. I just know it will be easier to do so with a higher ratio (4.56 or 4.88).
I would not recommend lockers on that Dana 30 up front, just a suggestion. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

That's rough for a top speed, but I guess we have to decide what our priorities are. Any reason for recommending not installing lockers on the front Dana 30?

BobRowe - You feel free to give it to me straight any time you think I'm not getting a point. I can on a rare occasion (often) be slightly (very) stubborn. I took the Jeep out and practiced climbing some rocks, a concrete curb that rose from 6" to about 3' above the parking lot (first real articulation - not too much but cool!), and alomst got stuck on a snow covered dirt road (had to dig out a little and put logs under the tires). Good times though. I'm learning. Imagining the much larger tires I can see where the regearing would be very advantageous. It's funny I'm all pumped about trying some new terrain this weekend, even though it was just a snow covered dirt road and a parking lot with some big rocks and a concrete curb/wall.

The 8000 series winches from all manufactures are cheaper than the heavier duty ones so I will be purchasing one of those as everyone seems to say they are adequite for the driving I'll be doing.

Fred - wicked awesome post, but what's wrong with wheel spacers? Everyone I'ved talked to said I will need them with the 35x12.50's

""Fred - wicked awesome post, but what's wrong with wheel spacers? Everyone I'ved talked to said I will need them with the 35x12.50's ""

That's wickedly awesome post outside of Beantown!


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> TYTO, my apologies for the Brevity, I just didn't want to get into the long drawnout discussion about wheel backspacing and offset. Here's the rub; wheel spacers are a quick fit to avoid buying new wheels (rims), and will eventually lead to problems. Yeah, a lot of four wheelers use wheel spacers and don't realize the damage they're doing. Your plan is to be a bigdog; and you're making great/rapid progress on the learning curve. Keep in mind that I've always recommended developing a complete plan, and to seek out gurus that know how to build rockcrawlers correctly. Everyone has their opinions, to be sure, but there are correct resolutions to problems. Also keep in mind that the friendly 4x4 shop is in business to sell stuff.
Okay, let's attempt to discuss this issue. I'll attempt to gloss over it slightly, and let others throw in their comments and knowledge. Backspacing: to explain backspacing, picture putting the wheel on the ground with the inside upward. Place a straightedge across the inside of the wheel, and, then measure down to the wheel's mounting phlange. What makes backspacing important is that it determines how far in, or out, the wheel sits in relationship to the hub brakes, suspension and wheelwells. More backspacing means that the wheel sits further inboard; less backspacing means the wheel is situated further outboard. If the tire-wheel combination is installed further outboard than its original stock position, it will cause more leverage on critical wheel bearings and steering components, and, increase wear. If you purchase a wheel with more backspacing, it causes clearance issues with inner fender, disc brake calipers, wheel weights, and steering components.
Wheel offset is interrelated; it's measured by determining the wheel's total width and dividing by 2 to determine the wheel's centerline. The distance between the centerline and the mounting flange is the offset: it can be positive or negative, or for that matter zero. Positive offset is when the mounting flange is toward the outside of the wheel. You can quickly calculate the offset by dividing the wheel/rim width by 2 and subtracting it from the backspacing measurement.
Yeah, When and if you build the Jeep, you'll need to get new wheels, too! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

""I would not recommend lockers on that Dana 30 up front, just a suggestion"" -Reeper

Steve, why do you say that? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Steve, you're still running stock ring and pinion gears on the silver TJ,right?

I've had an auto .ocker in my front Dana 30 diff for 13 years, been through mud, sand, and rock-climbing in Kentucky, and have NEVER had a problem. Part of that success may be because I've been out of my 20's for forty years now, and I don't feel the need to show off--just to get where I'm going. The other possible reason may be that I've got a D300 t-case with twin-stick shifters, so I can shift from 4WD Low range to 2WD Low range if a very tight turn on hard surface (rocks) necessitates it. Also, I have the Super Duty AGR power steering pump and steering gear box, which has no problem overriding the locker.

Now, if you drive like a madman, then either leave out the locker or get a D44 or D60.

Yeah, you caught me. But from the things I have been reading. I just don't think it is a good idea. The 30 do carry it's weight, even the engine. I just feel adding the extra torque to the equation just don't seem right for the small axle.
In fact I have been thinking about what I need to do to get a little less stock to drive these 35"'s. I don't want to modify the D 35 or the D 30. I have been looking into a 8.8 from an Explorer. I need to change gears also to at least a 4.56, but want different axles to boot. Don't want to pay for the gear swap twice.
As for the upgrade, I don't like the added probability of shaft changes or the weak links that I got now. I feel that I am already pushing things as it is.