we arn't doing hole n the rock any more

Really? I couldn't figure that out. You're killing me. I'm talking about you all wheeling in Grand and San Juan Counties

Driving from Grand Junction to Moab is not as easy as picking a formal trail. It is more a process of finding a way through. Right now the plan is to meet in a pay campground at Colorado National Monument, off 340. Then follow the conservation area boundary until we hit the border, then take random trails south(generally following the Kokapelli Trail)through Granite Canyon, up the Sheep Creek dug way..then I need a little more research. But likely coming out Rose Garden Hill at Onion Creek. The upper reaches of the Kokappeli will be too snowy likely.

Then down to Hole-n-The-Rock tourist trap to pick up our prior agenda. Again, this will skip Hole-N-The-Rock trail this time around, in favor of some exploration and adventure. Also, RattleSnake canyon is worth a short hike from above.

Patrick, Saturday night at the Park sounds fine. Since Esther is from the area we may meet friends in the late afternoon while waiting for you.

Yeah, I didn't want to say anything but the La Salles will probably still be capped with snow. I maybe interested in coming for a few days but the Mitsu still needs a Tcase. I do have the Lexus and I am a sure it would be plenty adequate. I just wish this trip was in June or July so I could bring the truck.

I hope you guys have your permits. You have a high probability of getting nailed with heavy fines. I just had this past weekend a friend get fined for a portion of the route you are planning. Grand County and San Juan County are the worst right now. Here's a post from another site that I wrote.




Notice to Trip Planners û There has been a change in policy with the BLM ( Bureau Of Land Management) office as of the last RMP (Route Management Plan). Traveling as a group on BLM lands may or may not now require a SRP (Special Recreation Permit). The non definitive ôdo Iö or ôdo I notö require a permit stems from a few issues. First off, every BLM office interprets the regulation differently. So what constitutes a ôgroupö to one field office may not necessarily be how another field office interprets it. Then each field office interprets what type of group you have differently as well.

The best approach to this problem is to call the field office in the area in which you will be traveling to have a determination made. If they state that you donÆt require a permit in a definitive manner. I would do a little CYA and get it in writing.

If it is determined that you do require a permit the hassle will ensue. Permits must be submitted for 180 days in advance. You must have fire pans per X amount of participants. You must have portable toilets per X amount of participants; you must know your exact precise route that you will be traveling on, to include emergency exit routes. Deviations to the route plan will constitute an amendment to your permit that you may or may not get. Then the biggy, you must have event insurance. This is extremely costly. It can run from $500.00 all the way into multiple thousands of dollars.

LetÆs just suppose you now have an approved permit. You now, as the trip leader, first off will have to create accounts to secure all those funds and ensure that all monies get to the appropriate places. Then you have to deal with the highly non decisive people who can never commit to anything until the last minute, as well as those that always commit but then always back out at the last minute as well. Then most importantly you as the Trip Planner is now ôlegallyö responsible for what does or does not happen.

I know there are some after ready this that are thinking ôwell IÆll just will not call the BLM or IÆll just do it covertly. Try it if you like but I would suggest doing everything possible to follow the rules and regulations that are in place whether you agree with them or disagree because be for warned the BLM does monitor user group websites such as this to catch folks planning group trips and not securing the proper permits.

I know of permits that have been required for gatherings as little as 6 rigs. It all depends on who you go through.

"Permits required for as little as 6 rigs".

Somehow I don't see that being a problem. 6 rigs would almost set the record for amitsu trip. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

BTW, 4x4wire was one of three that the BLM official I spoke with mentioned by name. I also verified all already stated through the state and national level.

Good luck on it, I'd call if I were you. Just trying to save some heartache in the old wallet. I've called four different field offices and depending on which trail I have had a group defined as little as 2 and as high as 15.

Well thank you for keeping us uptodate with the blm pass info i go pick one up. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

We wont have 6 rigs. But frankly, I just dont give a darn. If I had a real sized group, I would look into it. I never put my toll in the toll box atop Imogene Pass either, sorry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> I know the days of exploration and fourwheeling are almost over, maybe 5-10 years left in the US, but I am going to do my best to enjoy them. Then its all foreign after that.

Funny, I found a huge string on a rs2477 road I re-opened over a decade ago on another forum.(wont say where) I love the contraversy frankly. Of course I have excorted county bull dozers to old trails.....I dont think I better give any itineraries. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />