Your freedom is being voted away by an elite that will profit from your misery. Wake up, people, we're on the tipping point between freedom and slavery, citizen and subject, liberty and statism.

It's well past time to get involved..

I take it you're upset over the cap and trade bill that just passed.

The ironic thing is that most righties think that we're turning into a communist dictatorship, while most lefties, think that we're developing into the next socialist utopia.

Niether are right. What's happening is actually far worst than either. It's capitalism taken to it's most evil extremes, with control of everything, including our government, being taken over by a few private interests.

Very few people understand this, but everything that's been happening has nothing to do with "government" control. It's government being used as tool to serve private interests.

For example...the government didn't take over any banks and run them. What they did was abuse their constitutional given power to sieze banks, sieze assetts and sieze wealth, including tax payer back tens of trillions of dollars and GAVE them to private interests. That's not communism or socialism.

With the car companies, the government siezed two major companies and is now in the process of handing them over to other private interests....in some cases, foreign interests.

And now with this new cap and trade bill, it's not about government imposing some socialist environmental viewpoint on the rest of us. Far from it. It's a massive effort to consolidate power among the top elites. The government will impose new rules, then allow for a privately developed and run trading system that will basically give all the power to pollute to the richest companies and entities...in the world. Remember, non U.S. companies operate in the U.S. and so they will have the right to purchase credits as well. Eventually this system will go global and the power will truely be consolidated in a global way. Where foreign companies and interests will be able to openly rule certain aspects of America.

Again, the government is not taking over anything, but essentially clearly the way, using it's political and military might to the best interest of the private interests that control it.

What's happened is the American people have completely lost control over their government and the government is now essentially Sheriff Rosco P for a Boss Hogg private global elite.

And this all happened because we were stupid enough to fall for the two party system, where we bickered over frivilous issues, while they consolidated power in back room deals and then simply passed the ball back and forth, giving the appearance of power swings, including 1993, 2000 and 2008, when in fact, the exact same underlying policies were continued and never changed.

Add additional distractions like the "communist threat", supposed "terrorist threat" the many wars and now supposed environmental threats, and they've been able to impose new regulations and laws obestensively in our best interest, but really with nafarious intentions.

Our economy probably truly collasped at least by the 1990s, if not back in the late 1970s, but the elite have kept us afloat through very tactics, including lowering interest rates and flooding money into the markets. That allowed us to live through the greatest deindustrialization ever seen in history all through the 1990s and 2000s. As Americans lost jobs and lost wages, money was cheap enough that the perception was that our wealth was at least maintained, if not increased, while the foundation of our economy actually imploded around us.

That allowed them to continue with their plans unnoticed and especially unchallenged. Now that cycle has collasped, as everyone expected. But they aren't done with their plans. So, Americans have to be kept quiet and bought off for just a little while longer. Hence allowing the Democrats to have supposed control. The Democrats control the loudest faction in our country. The liberal/socialists can see through some of what is happening easier than conservatives. For example, they don't buy into wars and killing as easy and they aren't as hampered by misplaced patriotism. So, they needed to be tranquilized. And that's Obama's job. As you can see, he's done a brillent job. Despite the continued torchure, illegal detainments and overseas prisions and apparent increases in war, with new wars brewing, the Democrats are now all, but completely silent.

But that still leaves the economy and how to keep people from taking the streets over the loss of millions of jobs. The next round is the great welfare state. Not to impose any kind of socialist utopia on us, but simply to buy us off and keep us from challenging their plans for a little while longer. Maybe 2 years, maybe 5, maybe 10, I'm not sure.

And that's why you're seeing National healthcare rear it's ugly head, along with massive increases in borrowing for dramatic increased unemployment programs, etc.

Americans are poorer now than ever before, because not only do they not truly own anything, but they have net debt that no past American society ever had to deal with. Yet, we will keep our mouths shut, as the welfare comes pouring in and our impression will continue to be that our standard of living is minimally affected.

Only in the end, will the hammer drop, after everything is in place, after we've given up more rights in the face of supposed terrorism or additional wars and when everything, including our local governments and states rely entirely on the Federal government for funding and support. Then, the dollar, economy and everything will eventually collaspe and then, the true intentions of this government and those who rule them will be known.

How much you want to bet when people start to rebel the threat of home grown terrorists will be all over the news? "The only way to stem the threat of home grown terrorists is to do monthly inspections of all privately owned firearms." I can see it all now.

Unfortunately, the next "attack" probably will be from supposed homegrown terrorists and then it will be all over any "patriot" type groups, or pro-constitutionalists, etc.

They've already played the Al-Quiada card to it's fullest. So, I think that "threat" will die down. Although it's hard to say how things will play out if we go to war with Iran. But the liberal/socialists are in power and they never really bought into the Al-Quiada threat, so to bring back, risks a left wing backlash that they don't really want to deal with.

However, left wingers would be more than willing to believe a bunch of "evil" bible thumping redneck gun toting constitutionalist wackos could be out there trying to kill innocent people, because they already have a preordained stereo type view about their opposition.

Judging from what the government is projecting in their own warnings and documents, it looks like the new threat will be basically what they will call home grown extremists. It could be both left and right, but I suspect it will concentrate largely on what they call right wing extremists, that support constitutional rights. Because that's the biggest immediate threat to their plans and it's the easiest group to demonize.

They will probably create the impression that especially white surpremists groups are exploding in size and power and then lump anyone who advocates things like ending the Federal Reserve or supporting gun rights or our constitutional rights into the the same threat group. Which will especially strike fear and anger in the average person. Especially left and middle leaning people of average or lesser than average intelligence. Which is a HUGE segment of our population.

Of course, there will probably have to be a cataylist. Some kind of event. Something will happen that will cause long term national attention and not just a shooting somewhere. Something that will strike fear in the hearts of average people, enough that they will support laws and action against "the threat".

Note that I don't so far as to say anything will be staged. I'm not necessarily part of the group of people that believes everything is staged. I do believe that oppertunities are not wasted by these people however and they could just be waiting for some wacko to go nuts so they can capitalize on it.

Man...I really hope I'm totally wrong about all this. I would love nothing more than to be wrong. I would love nothing more than to find out that our government was just stupid and wasn't actually evil and nafarious.

You and me both, Brian.

>>>*This old man has read history, and while I have never been much of one to put much stock in conspiracy theory...let's just say that the most recent governmental actions give me pause.

For one thing, basic economics is that when faced with a flood of unsold product, there is just one answer.

The answer is to move the product, even at a loss if necessary. Far better to take a portional loss, reinvest and begin again than take a total loss.

Government instead poured revenue into financials and manufacturers, that can only help financials to continue short term, and to assist manufacturers to make MORE unsold product.

8th grade economics there, so what is REALLY going on?

Then when the Federal reserve simply prints capital to purchase it's own requests for a loan (treasury notes), the only possible result is eventual inflation.

The answer to inflation (ala Jimmy Carter) is to increase rates of interest. This works but reduces production and slows the economy.

*Which is already slowed.

OHOH!

Now history shows us that powers in control in other nations have taken these exact same steps, the eventual conclusion is economic disaster.

But for awhile, it all works, the powers in control remain in control, often for quite some time. The real goal becomes remaining in power, not building and maintaining a prosperous nation.

The citizens begin to show unrest, so the next step is to control the citizens. Remove access to the ability to fight back, force change, stop the ability for the people to remove the current authority.

Part of this is to control the ability to vote, obvious in other Nations with thousands of suspect examples in our own Nation.

The time to become really really frightened? It is when those in power suggest a National police force, the excuse being that it will "save" huge sums and help solve the economic "crisis" in many States.

Conspiracy? Perhaps. This template is from history, think.....China. Is it a utopia?

Well. I don't have the answer, but when government sends a federal offical to check my house to see if it meets that government "standard" before I can sell it?

Congress just voted for that.

That is a bit more government than this old man likes.

Plus when government wishes to take my firearms because some little kid might get ahold of it and hurt someone, or some bad person might use it for harm?

My question would be, WHY do those in government still have them???...*EB

EB,

I look back at 1992 when the political catch phrase was "Its the economy, stupid".

Will the calamity be "home grown terrorists"? What about a major economic meltdown? Like a state defaulting?

The home-grown terrorists on the left and right have been around for some time. The "right" seems to target individuals and limit collateral damage. (Okay, there are exceptions -- OK City bombing.) While the left has been more prone to grand displays against private property where the chance of collateral damage is greater.

Overall, I think a more pressing issue is a major default by a state due to budget issues. One of the bigger and more risky economies is California. Is California "too big to fail"?

What better way to have a conflict and have "big government" step in and save the poor people?

Will the feds take over a state like they have private enterprise?

Are the dominoes in place for the spectacular fall?

>>>*Ahhh, the catch phrases. Those get picked up by media and bandied about, they become the story of the day.

So many times I have heard the comments about politicians being "stupid."

Understand that most of the time, the acts that appear to be stupid on the face of it often have an underlying agenda.

I say something is wrong here. The most basic of economics is ignored, the results very likely a given.

It is true that one must first tear down a house to build anew on the same spot. Recent actions by government (and by "recent" I mean from the Carter administration on) all seem to be slowly heading us in one direction, the old two steps forward and one step back catch phrase.

We now live in a Nation so completely divisive that I would not be surprised to see some areas try to choose to go off on their own.

It cannot happen here, is another catch phrase I have heard from time to time. My answer would be why not? It has happened to every other Nation on Earth before, INCLUDING this one!

Think the Civil war at this point, the former Soviet Union is another glaring example. Iran currently, their people fighting back with rocks and sticks, all they have since they are deprived of anything more by those in power.

I watch the current leadership we have, local and all the way to the top. I look for that leader that as he climbs out of the foxhole he yells, "Come on, men!"

The one that I would follow into he**.

Right now? My answer would be..."Y'all let me know how that works out.....sir."....*LOL**....*EB

How much money did we give Israel??? Something in the billions! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

We're actually already there. These boys aren't stupid. I've give them that. They've figured out that if they are going to do certain things, it can't be quite as obvious. One example is our currency. When we finally do go to a global currency, it probably won't be as blatant as everyone having to turn in dollars for some global replacement, but rather that we keep our dollars, but they are backed by a new global basket of currencies or even a new replacement currency that is only traded between nations or banks and only the rate of exchange will be noticed by the average person.

But on to what's actually happening now.... The federal government has practically nationalized the police forces of the entire country in that most agencies received a signficant amount of their funding from federal grants. The grants are almost always tied to some sort stipulation that the agency has to enforce certain laws or do things that the federal government wants. This money is used to purchase everything from brand new vehicles to AR15 to special equipment and even hire officers.

Ever notice how even the smallest towns, that shouldn't have the money to hire even one officer, somehow have the money to not only hire multiple cops, but buy brand new vehicles with the fanciest equipment every few years? In the old days, they'd be driving 10 or 15 year old cars.

This extends to fire departments as well and goes well beyond just public safety.

Everyone knows the Feds fund a huge chunk of schools, highways, infrastructure, etc. And not just federal highways. The states and local governments have become dramaticly increasingly depedendent on these funds, all of which come with certain stipulations. Some stipulations are more public and less nafarious, like the old stipulation that states were required to have 55 mph speed limits if they wanted to continue to recieve highway funding. But others, such as the feds having more control over who gets what money and local highway planning are less obvious.

So, in the end, everything is now becoming dramaticly more federalized and nationalized than ever before. As the states begin to go bankrupt, that of course, is only going to get MUCH worse. Just recently, the feds threatened to sieze park land from California, if California closed certain parks as they are about to do with budget cuts.

I personally don't think we'll see a single uniformed national police force. I think it's too obvious and those in power are in the business of making their plans less obvious. Instead, just like the currency thing, they can achieve much the same means, by simply controlling the funding of every single police department in the country. Suddenly, no one is indepedent, because if you do anything to go against the fed's wishes, your funding gets cut.

The next step, might be something along the lines of federal certification for police officers. Right now the states have complete control over how police officers are hired and certified in their state. If the feds took that over, then they'd have direct control over being able to oust officers or sheriffs that they don't like. But I think that's a long term plan.