Sparkem had an 8294 on his 94 SR in a Don's bumper?? Why would they be unmountable?

If you want a good winch go hydraulic, worm drive or spur gear because all planetary winches are unreliable and inefficient. If you want to be cheap don't pay the money for a cheap winch buy a used winch that was an expensive winch. Seems to work for me and PA_JERO our 20 year old planetary winches that are not rated enough for the weight of our trucks and both of us only paid $50 for our winches so if they fail no big deal. It seems that all planetary winches are just hit and miss even within the same brand.

so whats a good hydraulic inch to buy for a swb 1g?

Mile Marker.

John B.

A raging spirited - not really nicely spirited debate over winch type and practical application on a Toyota forum. On the hydraulic side they also get into adding auxilary pumps + coolers + larger tanks for fluid with dipsticks + filters to support the hydraulic systems





Completely different applications. American 4wheeling is generally 1 day.....on "expedition" style wheeling in America, it's a few days and you are generally not really that far from services. The Outback is far different.

In American trail running, you are far more likely to roll the vehicle and have to self recover without the engine running than in the Outback. The electric is clearly superior for this type of use. Very few people I wheel with actually have dual or even deep cycle batteries.

It all comes down to end use of the vehicle....for an American trail rig, an electric winch is a better bet, for an expedition type rig, hydro may be the way to go....I can't say....I'm not interested in expedition wheeling.

Sean
__________________
"I too pray for peace. Peace and justice. If we can't have both, I choose justice."-Defender


07-29-2009, 09:36 PM #14 (permalink)
nwindy
Member


Join Date: Mar 2009
Member Number: 26497
Posts: 37 Re: Hydraulic Winch

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correct me if i'm wrong here, because i've never owned a winch nor used one before, all my info is based on the on going process of buying one.

i came cross a hydraulic 10000lb winch for $200 on craigslist few months ago and didn't buy it because what the seller talked me out of it.

1.) if your engine isn't running, winch doesn't work
2.) if your vehicle rolled, on the side or up side down, fuel pump can't pick up fuel, engine can't run, winch doesn't work.
above two scenarios, not a problem with electric winch as long as the battery works. i have Diehard Platinum, which is a re-labeled Odyssey glass mat battery, it works no matter which way it's placed even up side down.

3.) if power steering fails, the whole vehicle is paralyzed. if a battery dies, just jump start it you are on your way, most of the cars can run without a battery once it started.

4.) replacing steering pump is complicated on the trail specially with the extra hydraulic lines from the winch. i did replaced alternator during trail run, half an hour with couple wrenches and a propane torch(frozen bolt).

5.) toyota power steering pumps are not on the power side and the low fluid capacity(1qt) makes the whole system prone to overheat. aftermarket ps upgrade are out there and proven reliable but bloody expensive, ~$400 and up for DIY kit. so, what's the point.

i think the hydraulic winch is for the full size trucks.


07-29-2009, 09:43 PM #15 (permalink)
Sean K.
Forum Superstar





Join Date: Feb 2007
Member Number: 9441
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,000 Re: Hydraulic Winch

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Quote:
nwindy previously said:
correct me if i'm wrong here, because i've never owned a winch nor used one before, all my info is based on the on going process of buying one.

i came cross a hydraulic 10000lb winch for $200 on craigslist few months ago and didn't buy it because what the seller talked me out of it.

1.) if your engine isn't running, winch doesn't work
2.) if your vehicle rolled, on the side or up side down, fuel pump can't pick up fuel, engine can't run, winch doesn't work.
above two scenarios, not a problem with electric winch as long as the battery works. i have Diehard Platinum, which is a re-labeled Odyssey glass mat battery, it works no matter which way it's placed even up side down.

3.) if power steering fails, the whole vehicle is paralyzed. if a battery dies, just jump start it you are on your way, most of the cars can run without a battery once it started.

4.) replacing steering pump is complicated on the trail specially with the extra hydraulic lines from the winch. i did replaced alternator during trail run, half an hour with couple wrenches and a propane torch(frozen bolt).

5.) toyota power steering pumps are not on the power side and the low fluid capacity(1qt) makes the whole system prone to overheat. aftermarket ps upgrade are out there and proven reliable but bloody expensive, ~$400 and up for DIY kit. so, what's the point.

i think the hydraulic winch is for the full size trucks.

You are correct on points 1-4. I don't know about 5, but I do know Toyota has low capacity in terms of fluid and flow compared to standard GM saginaw type boxes/pumps.

It's only marginally better on fullsize 1 ton type trucks. As I said and the test posted above also shows, if you want the best performance and to avoid the pitfalls of your #1-5....you need a larger flow system with an appropriate cooler at a minimum thereby substantially increasing cost. An accumulator tank with a separate high GPM pump would be even better.


Sean
__________________
"I too pray for peace. Peace and justice. If we can't have both, I choose justice."-Defender

It's an 8274 and he had to modify the Don bumper. I bought the bumper from him and mounted my own 8274 on it. Then I gave the bumper back to him. My 8274 is at least 30 years old. It's been rebuilt twice, once by me with new solenoids. I've personally pulled a rolling 20k lbs. I had to chain to another truck who was chained to a tree. We broke the tree. Had to use another tree, which cracked.

I agree with the calling of bull$hit on the magazines test results. The biggest advertiser always wins.

I never even thought about not being able to turn yourself over if the motor cant run due to the risk of hydrolock. You would be royally screwed if you ended up rubber side up with a hydraulic set up!

Im still a firm believer in a dual battery setup, even if you dont go with one of those fancy "switcher" thingies. Ive just ran them in with the power cables hooking together and a chassis ground on the second one somewhere near the motor or frame ground on the first battery.

A heavy long pull will suck a single battery dry quick and greatly depreciate its life.

And im still not sold on the synthetic cable thing, I just cant see how they would not dry rot or even fray much more easier than a steel cable would? And most of the winches that come with synthetic cable only have 50ft. of line and if you have to use a snatch block or a double pull, you better have something close to anchor too. Just my .02 again.

They dont necessarily have to be top of the line yellow tops or anything like that, you just need a battery capable of alot of cold cranking amps and deep cycles.

I had a buddy get upside down in a tank trap one time and it took three different winches and some straps to get him rubber side down again because you just couldnt get close enough to get a good clean pull on him.

He ended up diving in and hooking one winch to the rear bumper shackle to anchor the back of the truck and two winches pulling on his front bumper to get him back right side up. Without the rear tied off, we were just dragging him further and further forward allowing more time for the motor to hydralock due to oil up in the heads and cylinders.

Once we got those plugs out and pumped out all the oil and put some new ones in though she fired up and smoked like a b1otc# for the remainder of the day. Needless to say, he was at the back for the rest of the day

I'm not sure about the synthetic either. When I got the Gorilla/Promark 12K it came with 87 feet of cable. They do sell the synthetic for $129 but that's only 92 feet by comparison so it's a net gain of 5 feet. I guess the no gloves and no whiplash is an upgrade that might make it worthwhile. Also with the winch and ARB bumper it's riding a little lower in the front so the weight offset might also be a plus. I figured I'd wait and see what the actual situation dictates.

You are right though it seems like it's time for a dual battery install.

A while ago I got this rubber thing that pulled up against my fairlead that the hook folded into and it worked good in the case of a broken cable and the whiplash following it. You just slid it out halfway and went to work. And it was nice not having to hook to a shackle or worry about pulling the cable in too tight.

I have learned over time to expect the worst and have at least 50 ft. of cable out and at the ready along with a tree strap when "going in where no man has gone before" LMAO

Love my MileMarker. Yes slow but quiet. Winch all day long if need to. I don't buy all this talk about being rubber side up and being able to right itself up. That would be some complex rigging. Better have a buddy with you or I'd rather try with highlift if I were by myself. If you get stalled in water then one might indeed be able winch itself out with electric only to not have enough juice to start the rig later.