Did Mitsubishi ever produce a Montero SOHC 3.5l with a manual transmission? Not the Montero Sport - a Montero.

Edit:

Ok. Never mind. Apparently they did. I wsa looking at the 99. I can't tell if this was the sohc with the 5-speed manual.

So, does anyone have the part # for the FED SOHC '97, '98 and '99 5-speed manual ECMs?

Is there anything that would differ from the Sport ecm? Anything that the Montero would have that the Montero Sport wouldn't?

The only things that came to mind were knock sensor and maybe the a/c control stuff and fuel tank level / temp. Don't know much about the Montero ECMs, so i could use some help.

Edward

Monteros in the US were AT only after 96. I have the parts accumulated to swap a 96 MT setup into the 00. In planning this with OldColt, he does not think we will have any issues with the ECU. This doesn't exacly answer you question though. I could get you the Fed MB number for my 00 AT if you need.

As long as you're going from 3.5 ECU to 3.5 ECU, you will be ok. You can't go from 3.0 to 3.5 or 3.5 to 3.0 or you'll have the same problems I currently have. I assume you're swapping harnesses and ECU? Or you're going to have the problem Danny has and I ran into a year+ ago.

Dang!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That sucks. Thanks, though. The '99+ is a PCM and there's no way I can see to get past all the integrated TCM functionalities. That problem I already have with the '99 Sport PCM.

Ok. So, can anyone tell me if the '97 is a completely separate ECM and TCU? The '98?

This is the PN# I came up with for the '97 - MD338137. I'm thinking that I can swap this into my 5-speed manual if its only a one wire (or no wire) connection - that leaving the TCU out won't affect the ECM's functionality.

Does anyone know how or if the TCU connects to the ECM in this year?

Edward

Ok. I spoke to the senior tech this morning. He seems to think there shouldn't be any reason I can't integrate the '97 Montero ECM into the '97 Sport. We'll see. I have a ECM and complete set of service manuals on the way.

Edward

I'm pretty sure Charlie said the engine and tranny are on separate "CUs." What little bit of interplay they might have should go unnoticed by the engine when the AT is gone. We definitely talked about it and pulled nothing related from the donor.

The tech i spoke to today says the '99+ Monteros use a PCM - the Powertrain Control Module. The ECM and TCU are one box - you can't just leave the TCU out.

Edward

Interesting, and thanks for the beta. I just started a spring is here email with Charlie to plan some things out. He hasn't been on the board as much lately. I'll pass this along. We won't be doing my swap for a little while still. Will report back as things develop.

Since your guy said 99+, maybe it's as simple as getting a 97-98 ECU. Alternatively, the later Gen II.5 Monteros (not sure when) ECUs can be reprogrammed. I guess the 3S crowd has been known to use them.

More digging and info. More for the general infobase than Edward's perhaps. Old Colt agreed that the Gen III 4ATs and 5ATs have the servos and PCM. I sent him my VIN (no ASA at work) and did a visual on my 00. I have the TCU, which he later confirmed via ASA, adding that ASA shows the same tranny across other Gen II years. (I would guess 94+ DOHCs and 3.5 SOHCs.)

Not sure how that helps the thread here. But at least good news my way for when we start into my swap.

Yep, they've been using some of the Montero ECM/PCMs for a while. But, what's happening is these guys aren't using our ROMs. They're getting the ECM/PCMs and flashing them with different software code. I think there's some general confusion about what 'reprogramming' means in this case.

There's 'reprogramming' as in changing existing settings within the existing software on the ECM/PCM. So, changing fuel and timing maps, turning on/off trouble codes, disabling the CEL for selected functions - stuff like that.

Then there's 'reprogramming' as in flashing on entirely new software base code. This is the operating system of the ECM/PCM. A simple analogy would be taking your PC/laptop that currently runs Windows XP and reloading it with Linux.

When you read about people using the Montero ECM/PCM on an Eclipse or GT3000 - the latter is what they do. After that, they do the former.

I'm an X hardware programmer so I'm very familiar with the process. Flashing code hasn't changed in the 30+ years I've been dealing with hardware.

The problem we have is that (AFAIKT) no one has built a ROM for our vehicles and its not as simple as loading a normally aspirated 5-speed manual ROM for an Eclipse or GT on an ECM/PCM and plugging it into a Montero or Sport. Physically ECM/PCMs differ little. The newer the unit, the faster the CPU(s), and they add circuits for increased/different functionality. As long as ECM/PCMs are electrically compatible - they're interchangeable at some common level.

Software, though, is a different story. Every sensor attached to the ECM/PCM has data tables associated with it. There is engine specific programming like fuel and timing maps. Static variables for dozens of functions defining minimum, maximum, optimal, acceptable range, etc., values. Vehicle specific programming like, is it a manual or automatic, what gear ratios does it have in the axles and transmission, weight, and data on aerodynamics. There's more and ALL of it has to coincide reasonably closely (within the programmings 'acceptable range' criteria) with the vehicle/engine combination that the ECM/PCM is being installed in or one will have serious issues - like blowing up an engine.

So, simply, no, you can't just use a ROM for an Eclipse, say, and change existing settings and put it in a Montero, unless you can change all the vehicle/engine specific tables/maps. I don't think anyone has gotten to that level of reverse engineering, yet.

Now, if we had a couple ROMS for the Sport and Montero for both the automatics and manuals with the tweak-ability of the GT/Eclipse stuff - well, that'd be a different story.



Ok. So, like the '99 3.5L and '00+ Sports. That's useful to know.

So, just to make sure I have this right, the last year for the Gen II is '00, correct? The Gen III starts with the '01 model year? Sorry, not up on my Montero years.



Documenting this stuff is important, IMHO.

I spent yesterday poring through the '98 Montero electronic FSMs on Links. I'm not done, yet. I'm only to the point of confirming the tables with the actual wiring diagrams. BTW, I found a typo on the power transistor. They reference 'pin 5' where it should be 'pin 45'.

I haven't yet found any connection between the ECM and TCU. Interesting, 'cause if I remember correctly '98 Sport has a single wire 'bus circuit' that connects the ECM and TCU.

So far, I have only two things that don't coincide between the FED '97 Sport and FED '98 Montero.

1. Spark Check Signal (pin 51) Montero Sport
2. Engine Ignition Signal (pin 45) Montero

I'm trying to figure out now if those are actually the same thing. Terminology changes for some things between the Montero and the Sport. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The only difference between the manual 5-speed Sport and automatic Montero is Park/Neutral Position Switch (pin 67) on the Montero ECM - obviously not present on the manual Sport. It is present on the automatic Sport.

So, in the case of swapping a '98 Montero ECM into a '97 Sport, so far this appears to be a simple swap. (keeping my fingers crossed) A Boomslang conversion harness to convert from the 100/3 connector '98 Montero plugs to the 92/4 connector '97 Montero/Montero Sport plugs. Tap Park/Neutral on the Montero side to Ignition ST (so the vehicle will start w/ no P/N switch).

I expect also based on this that the '97 Montero ECM won't be significantly different. (also, keeping my fingers crossed)

I don't have a '98 Montero to check so I can't confirm that there are wires present on the actual plugs that aren't documented in the FSMs. I do have a '97 Montero ECM on the way WITH the harness plugs so I can confirm that one myself. I'm putting this in spreadsheets and I'll burn those to PDF and publish them. When I'm done it'd be real helpful for everyone if guys that actually HAVE these vehicles can confirm that the docs are right.

Edit:

Spark check signal and Engine Ignition Signal are the same, so its pin 45 <--> 51.

New (not sure what these do yet):

1. ABS Control Unit (pin 66)
2. ELC-4 A/T Control Module C-140 (pin 45)
3. ELC-4 A/T Control Module C-140 (pin 46)

No equivalent on M/T:

1. Park/neutral position switch (pin 67)
2. 4WD Operation detection switch (pin 65)

Also found a couple more typos that I'm trying to resolve.

OBD & CEL:

P1600 Serial communication link malfunction (with 4A/T) (Same as the '97/'98 Sport w/ECM)

• The engine control module receives various messages from the transmission control module via communications line.
  
  The engine control module monitors a defective message signal due to open circuit in communication line and transmission control module failure.

The '98 MD343513 ECM is apparently flashable.

3.5L SOHC A/T Montero ECM (FED)
1997 MD338137 (92 pin/4 plug connector)
1998 MD343513
1999 MD361885
2000 MD365261 ('98-'00 100 pin/3 plug connector)

Edward

I have a 97 with a 90 motor. I had only to give the transmission CPU a tps reading. I don't throw any codes. Not sure if that helps...but... I have thought about putting the 5 speed auto on it. I was not sure about. What all the transmission CPU would need it looked to me that it would want a crank signal. I never looked all that close.