Wow, yeah, those ARE wild looking...I think an ex of mine used to wear those on occaision. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Being that it was wet and all, there was your normal ruts, but nothing that was permanent. I was extremely impressed with the way the trucks pulled around. The tires were caked with mud, but the chains seemed to stay somewhat clean, the links might have become clogged, but the chain always had that open edge to grab with. On a side note, we had our property logged off last year, selective cutting to promote undergrowth and new trees. They had one skidder there. Huge tires like was mentioned before, but last spring was really wet. Everytime the truck had a load on it, it would try to back back across our field and on to the road. Well, many times it wouldnt be able to make it, so the skidder put the winch cable around the rear of the truck, it had a hitch and would pull it across the field. After the first 2 weeks or so, it got so wet, they needed chains on the skidder. These werent ordinary chains like those picture above, but had a huge cup in the center, about 5 inches in diameter and maybe 3 inches deep. These were now required to pull the truck across the field. At one point before the chains were put on, and the truck got stuck, left rear tires completely covered in mud, the skidder tried to pull it out, but almost got stuck himself. These things are locked front and rear, so all 4 tires were spinning, mind you these are 6 foot tires that are 2 feet wide. He dug all 4 tires about 3 feet into one of our fields. Which we werent happy with and have to be careful going across with the tractor. Try hitting them doing about 20 mph on an atv, not very fun. These machines left considerable ruts in our field and we fixed them ourselves using our own cultivating equipment. Its still not perfect, but better than it was. The main reason it was tore up so bad was because these guys couldnt wait for it to dry out, and were not reasonable with their equipment. If they would have used their heads and been more careful when driving, there wouldnt be ruts. I think they could have prevented a lot of trouble by using the skidder to pull the truck across the field to help reduce wheel spin. Of course, they could have waited for dryer weather too. The chains they used were similar to these., the gripster, but with a deeper center cup. I dont think things would have been too bad with just the skidder roaming around, but the truck is what caused 99% of the damage. Where the skidder was in the woods, you can not really tell. The driver was really good and the only way to tell is the bark was off the trees he went over. If your looking for a hardcore offroad machine that has its own super heavy duty winch and a scraper, get yourself one of these. I think it would be dang near impossible to get stuck. The truck caused the trouble because of wheel spin and being extremely heavy. The chains I think helped to prevent more damage because it got better traction. Sorry for the long post

Dan

Interesting story - probably would have been fun to watch if it wasn't your land being ripped. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />
The type of chain you mentioned is known as a ring chain. I seem to remember reading in a logging article that ring chains are more prone to damaging trails than link chains - but after reading your story and how the skidder left little impact I may reconsider. Ring chains look like a strong design, not to mention downright badass.

It was fun to watch, even after they left some of the ruts in the road, I had to take my truck through just to see how bad they were. What wasnt fun was running though our field on our ATV and not seeing the 4 ruts until the last minutes, made a quick maneuver only to hit 2 holes instead of 4 doing about 20 mph. Just about enough to throw you from the seat, but did no damage to the atv. I spent about 2 hours or so with our tractor and a gang disc trying to smooth out the road they used, and also used the front end loader a bit. Last year was about the worst year they could have done it, it was just so wet and didnt dry out til about mid july. After a year, the only damage really left would be the ruts in our one field, where the guy dug himself down with all 4 tires. We havent plowed that field, left for hay, but when it gets plowed, it should fix the problem.

Dan

ok so if the skkiders (SP?) would still be there than they may be even more rutts? one truck with chains is not going to hurt much. but on all the trails we go on how many just have one truck a year on them? the problem is not one truck one time, its 30 trucks year round. one person uses chains and others see it. it starts to grow from there.

Paul

Paul

Well, that may or may not be valid - but consider the details of hunterdan's experience: the truck and the skidder were both there a minimum of two weeks, probably longer. The season was unusually wet, and the ground boggy. Skidders weigh far more than even my four door SR and run massive tires that weigh hundreds of pounds apiece. The chains strapped to the rig had links/ rings that were larger and taller than might be used on our trucks, and were pressed into the soft, wet earth by several tons of heavy equipment that, in all likelihood, was driven in a crisscross pattern over the same small patch of land for hours every working day. Trails, by contrast, are used differently - a truck passes through a length of track, and possible turns around to complete the route backwards. On trails that loop, the trail is only impacted by vehicle "x" once per excursion.
I think the more I dig into this subject, the more I realize that those who oppose the idea of tire chains on the trail typically have never used them at all; the ones who sing the praises of chains for the ballsout traction they provide , backed up by actual experience, normally reinforce the notion that chains don't rip trails unless an irresponsible moron is behind the pedal.

Hey, I had a thought: it occurred to me that chains might provide another benefit by effectively increasing the diameter of your tires by about an inch or so when you're chained up. I think this would especially be true for diamond, double diamond, and other patterns that put plenty of steel between the tire and the ground. Possibly not so much for ladder chains.

like what happend in the mob, in a few post above. if chains were used in only the worse places i would be ok with it. but it is the people who will only use chains and will be pedal heavy that i have the problem with. All it takes is one person to go ripping something up and then they are banned.

chains will help, more in some places and less in others, like i have said i have never seen people use them and don't see the need for it and from sparkem's post we do some heavy stuff.

Paul

Lloyd, never seen a 4x4 with chains? Jeez...ever drive ANY mountain pass in a snowstorm? I don't think I've ever done one where there WASN"T a bunch of guys running chains. From the big azz'd plows that toss em on when they know its going to get tough, to the guys laying gravel, all the way down to the highway service, and patrol guys in their 4x4 pickups who know they're going to have to spend all night up there making sure the noobs who paste themselves into the banks don't stay there long enough to reach the same temperatures.

Guys, I ran my first set of 4 chains on a little hurricane jeep when I was 9 years old. I've run em in europe, and all over the western US. 1. Do they increase traction on anything but rock or rock hard like surfaces? Definitely. 2. Are they possibly dangerous? Yep, guys that like to run the wheels at 30mph when the vehicle is moving 3 mph will soon have large gaping gashes in their wheelwells. 3. Will they tear up your average trail? depends, most trail damage i see is guys spinning lugged tires long after they've lost any vestige of forward movement. They dig out huge holes which then erode like the dickens turning in a few seasons to impassable holes and moguls. Guys with chains who know how to use them never spin a tire, after all, that's the point.

In the end they are for slow, sure, traversal of 'gunk'. In southern Utah where the clay dust after a rain turns into incredibly sticky goop, caking onto your wheels in minutes to the point that they jam in the wheelwells, I use chains on a slightly loose setup so that they have some room to move and in doing so, they dislodge the clay.

I guess depending on what you do, it looks as if most of you don't need em so no problem. But as Phil says, if you've never run chains before in snow, you have a whole new world waiting for you just
1. get a set that fits RIGHT!.
2. Learn how to put em on and cinch em up.
3. Slooooow, Smooooth, and gentle on the pedal is the key to long chain life, and maximum effect.
4. If your chains get rusty, easiest way to clean em is to put em on and go run through some sand for while pull em off, hose em off , lay in sun to dry and then hit em with WD 40 and bag em for next season.

A good set of chains will get you through stuff you cannot traverse any other way, not everything, but more than you're going to get through without em

Last comment on mud. I once had to go track a lost kid in the California San Bernadino Mountains after a storm.(I was a tracker trainer for the SanBernardino County Sheriffs once) Road was soooo muddy, that if you stopped and leaned against your truck, it would slowly slide right off the road, no kiddin and where he was lost, off the road was a damned dangerous place to be... I and a local guy named Dick Wilhouse (chief tracker then) put chains all around on DodgeZilla and pulled a trailer with 2 good horses in it up a road you couldn't hardly stand up on. Everyone else came in by helicopter. nuff said.

Good Chains are damned cheap for what they get you.
Buy some

seer <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Nice! I'll have to get a set, rust 'em nicely, and take 'em to Cape Hatteras for some maintenance. Perfect excuse. Seriously, though, good tip.



Whoa! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for taking the time to write this.