If that is the case, you will likely get most of the lift that you need from the All-Pro springs and hangers. You *may* run into some rubbing issues at the back of the front wheelwell, but you can pound the fender seam flat and even cut some of the sheetmetal if necessary. If I were you I would run the springs and hanger that you have, add a 1" body lift from Roger Brown, and then trim anything that rubs when the time comes. That is basically the setup that I have with 37s. The 1" body lift will allow you to raise the drivetrain and make mounting sliders easier without the problems associated with higher body lifts (bumper and shifter relocation, fan shrouds, ect).

i guess i should have asked what the stock length of the frt shackles were. i had no idea. so 3.5" is stock length. if mounting the shackle throught the frame do i still add the same amount from front to back of spring?

i guess ill have to move the axle forward somehow to clearance the firewall. and to do that ill have to make my own hanger...right? no way to do that neatly using the all pro hanger? maybe a plate under the crossmember alowing the all pro hanger to be moved forward. this would be much easier to figure out if i actually had the hanger but im still waiting on shipment.
does anybody you guys know run 38"s ? id like to get a look at that. thanks

This is my truck with All-Pro hanger and shackles, 4" All-Pro springs with the bottom leaf removed, and a 1" body lift above 37" MT/Rs. The truck is pretty much gutted and the springs are not broken in, I hope that it will still be an inch or two lower once it is all dialed in.



Have you considered using axle relocation plates in order to move the axle forward another inch? These will affect your caster angle (for the better) and pinion angle (for the worse) but should solve your clearance problems and be a lot easier.

Some shackle dimensions, yes. 3.5" or 88mm is about the pin-pin length, as I mentioned in my earlier posts. Its the same length as your stock rear shackles.

Harry, I have actually done a few SAS's and done the shackles both ways - through the frame and underneath. I don't think one is any better than the other, just different ways to set upa suspension depending on the needs and uses of the vehicle.

On my 4Runner, I did a 2" front drop hanger, moved the hanger about 1" forward, put the shackle through the frame, used 2" longer than stock shackles, and used rear springs up front (axle 2" forward).

This gave me an axle that is overall 3" forward of stock.

With the rear springs being longer, I was able to still locate the shackle through the frame and get a decent angle on the shackles. But your concerns about shackle angle when using stock length springs, shackle through the frame, and the front hanger moved forward could be a valid one.

Same setup on my truck... Identical.. (but I did mine first! HA! I'm just razzing ya, Dave). I made my spring hanger a dual-pattern, so I also have a mounting point in the stock location as well. Have run both rears and stock length up front with 2" longer than stock shackles to match the hanger - both with no problems whatsoever.

well i guess the question i have now is to go under the frame or through. going under will be a bit easier and i can always cut off the shackle hanger and go through if i decide to.

what degree of angle should the front axle be tilted up towards the t case for proper steering geometry?

also how am i supposed to know how far i am moving the axle forward from the stock position? what can i use as a reference point?

thanks again everyone.

These are two seperate, but inter-related, issues. The *pinion angle* is how much the pinion flange is rotated from vertical. If you are running a CV shaft then ideally you want the pinion pointing directly at the transfer case. If you are running with a single u-joint at each end you want the pinion flange and the transfer case flanges to be on parallel planes so that the u-joints cancel out vibration as they speed up and slow down.

As for the proper *steering geometry*, this is where caster comes into play. The caster angle is how far the steering knuckles are rotated from vertical. Stock Toyota solid axles come with around 2 degrees of caster, not much at all. A little more caster will help the vehicle track straight on the street, you certainly would not want less than 2 degrees. With more springs that move the center pin forward, you gain more caster because instead of the axle being centered at the bottom of the springs arch, it is located on the sloped spring where it starts upwards towards the front spring hanger. This helps with the caster.

Both of these issues are also affected by the relation between the spring hanger drop and shackle length, as mentioned earlier. The problem is, as you gain more caster the pinion is rotated DOWN. If you rotate the pinion back up towards the transfer case, you lose caster. Running a high pinion front third member and/or dual cases will lessen the angle between the transfer case and the front axle, however I really think that rotating the knuckles is the best option. I rarely here of people doing this on Toyota axles, but it is common on Dana axle swaps.

excellent explaination. a dual case will be used but with cv joints on the shaft, i dont think a high pinion is in the budget right now and i doubt i will be rotating the knuckles anytime soon. i just want to try to set the pinion at the stock location for the best caster and let the cases and cvs make up for the rest. i dont want steering issues.

how about the question about the stock location of the axle?

if i have no ifs remaining on the frame, and need to know where stock location of the axle is for hanging the front spring hanger, what can i use to determine the location of the hanger?

Stock hanger is about lined up with the back side of the front frame crossmember, from the page I posted earlier.