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4L30E advice please #629222 07/22/05 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,111
HCMP Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
so smack my wrists, my tranny fluid has never been changed. to my knowledge...

I picked up the amigo @ 60k mi. and knew nothing about transmissions, transfercases, engines, anything. Thanks to the helpful advice I've received here and a willingness to just go for it i've learned a lot and gained a great interest in mechanical and automotive "stuff". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> I'm @ 135k mechanic free miles now. ok, ok, so not all of them are mine.

One of the things I've picked up about higher mileage auto transmissions is that if the fluid hasn't been changed I *MIGHT* be better off not changing it. The reason sounds reasonable, that the detergents in the fresh fluid might free up some built-up gunk from somewhere that might be pumped off to a another close tolerance, tight squeeze area and clog it, thus killing the transmission.

So "maintaining" a transmission whose fluid you aren't going to change is basically making sure it is topped off. So, ok. I guess I can do that.

But, uh oh. I've developed quite a leak in the gasket on the pan, and its certainly not going to get any better on its own.

So I've come up with basically 2 options/actions I could take and I'd like some advice please. Here we go:
1. Just keep topping off. I know this would be tedious, perhaps even neglected and it seems like it would only buy some time before I would have to resort to one of the other potential actions.
2. Change it. The gasket, the screen/filter, and it seems like the thing to do would be flush all the fluid. And I've got a few different routes I can go with that:
a. Take it to a legit tranny shop, where if the service is jiffy its coincidence, and let them just do their thing
b. Backyard flush and refill just hoping that it was changed right before I got it 70k mi ago? i AM mr. cheap after all. Too cheap in this situation? Do I need a pro? I know IÆm dealing in risky business here.

A couple other things in combination with a change to consider would be
-run something like seafoam in there for a bit before the change to try and break up any sludge to hopefully get rid of it during the flush.
- refill with synthetic

So anyone have any experience or advice? Any options I haven't considered.

I've got the shifty shudders and my fluid is BLACK.

& I know i suck.
thanks everyone,
--jeremy


when looking for a container to hold drained brake fluid, find a container that is different from the beverage you are currently consuming.
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629223 07/22/05 10:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 21
C
CIrrusnine Offline
Need a Spot
Hi Jeremy,

Here is my opinion...

Black fluid is not good.

The 4l30e loves fresh fluid and regular filter changes, not changing the fluid and just topping it off is asking for future problems. a slurry thick sludge will build up on the bottom of the pan and potentially clog the filter. Transmission fluid has a limited usage life and is shortened by heat caused by friction. Lubricants past their lifespan will break down and "varnish" leaving a sticky residue, potentially clogging the transmission valve bodies. If you are afraid of taking your truck to the shop to have it flushed, please consider doing the minimum and do a complete fluid and filter change. Pay careful attention when refilling with fresh fluid. Overfilling the 4l30e will cause foaming of the fluid and overheating.

Good luck! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


'94 Rodeo V6
211,200 mi.
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629224 07/23/05 12:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,873
H
holger Offline
Body Damage is Cool
This transmission definitely loves fresh good fluid.

According to my experience, it also loves an ATF with decent high-temperature resistence. Some time ago I put RedLine High-Temp in it, with higher high-temp viscosity, and I noticed that it shifts noticably better now, especially in hot weather after long runs.


Oleg
Axiom 4WD 2004: OME shocks, 32" BFG Mudders, RockSliderz, OME929+2" spacers, Stinkyfab bent RE rear links, front ARB locker, rear No-Slip locker, DOR front axle lowering kit, custom middle section skid plate, IronMan torsion bars.
Deceased Rodeo'02 4WD.
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629225 07/23/05 05:39 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
Check out this link...
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showf...mp;amp;sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

I didn't have 135k, but 105k. I sort of have to disagree with the guy from Aamco and everyone else after my experience, in changing out the fluid after so many miles is bad. I am no expert at all, but my transmission is shifting a 100% better. I wish I could help you with the transmission flush the guy mentioned on NPR though. I guess any "reputable" transmission place would know about it.

One way, you're probably going to have to put a new transmission in shortly, the other could solve your problem. You could swap the fluid and potentially solve your problem... or you could not swap the fluid, try to keep it topped off (sometime possibly forget) and have to change out the tranny.

Me, I don't regret changing the fluid. Good luck though, trannies suck!

BTW, if you can afford it go with AMSOIL. It's the best and they claim 100k miles before you need to change it. Of course the filter will need changing before then.

Last edited by 4x4Ro-d-o; 07/23/05 05:41 PM.
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629226 07/23/05 07:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 358
C
central Offline
Mudrunner
No tranny expert here but my reading leads me to believe the problem with adding new ATF is that it will loosen old gunk in the tranny. This stuff will then lodge in new places causing new problems.

Therefore, FWIW, I would first do a thorough flush with new ATF. Drive around to give the new fluid enough time to loosen the old gunk but not enough time cause a problem, maybe 30 minutes max.???. Come back and fix whatever is wrong, replace the filter and refill with new fluid. At that point I would probably think I got almost all the old stuff out. However, being semi-paranoid and for a few bucks in fluid and filter I would probably drive around for an hour and do yet another filter change just to make sure all the old junk was gone. I would install the new pan gasket with this second filter change. Again, no guarantee just what I would do unless someone clued me in otherwise.

I would not continue to top off with new fluid due to the potential of new fluid causing new problems. Also the potential of losing a tranny due to not fixing a known problem is also not my style.

Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: central] #629227 07/24/05 01:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,285
CPOM Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Jeremy lets get an old pan and weld fittings on it and drive around with a tube going into a 5 gallon bucket to recycle the fluid.. We could even build a secondary in line filter to trap debris. maybe get a little pump to pump the fluid through. this would work unless the system needs to be pressurized which might cause problems


CHRIS
98 Amigo, 92 Pup

need a pickup 1st gen fuel level sender
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629228 07/25/05 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,111
HCMP Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
Thanks for the advice, everyone.
if this one survives I promise I'll change it regularly.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


when looking for a container to hold drained brake fluid, find a container that is different from the beverage you are currently consuming.
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629229 07/26/05 03:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 276
NATO308 Offline
Mudrunner
I also bought an Amigo with 60K+ miles that never had anything done to the transmission. On top of that the engine had a cracked head that caused it to overheat. Not sure how many time it had overheated before I got it, but the ATF was a black varnish and it did not want to shift. I changed the fluid and filter and things started looking better. Now I change the fluid about every 10, 000 miles. I found an easy way to do it at home. I bought a Fram Sure Drain plug assembly to replace the drain plug, I found it at Pet Boys for $10 ( http://rustysoffroad.com/article_framsuredrain.html ). I still pull the drain all the way off to drain the fluid. Then I put the plug back in and use a PLEWS LubiMatic Fluid Quart Pump to fill the pan through the bottom drain ( http://www.plews-edelmann.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1916&location_id=2626 ). The vinyl hose on the pump fits tight in the center of the Fram drain adapter. With the top plug removed you can pump ATF up through the bottom until it starts to overflow out the top plug hole. Start the engine and shift through all the gears and put it back in neutral and finish filling the pan. When done you can just unscrew the drain adapter and screw on the cap seal without loosing any ATF. It takes about 15 minutes to change out the ATF with this equipment and no mess! You will need the Sure Drain SD-2, M14x1.5 .


'94, and '00 Amigos and '00, 01 Rodeos. Rodeo springs and aftermarket 'hard top on 94. Aisin hubs OME 919's on the 2000 Amigo. 2000 and 2001 Rodeos have OME 912's and Aisin. Smoother ride with the OME 919's???
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629230 07/27/05 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,111
HCMP Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
Thanks for the votes of confidence for which I will hold you personally liable
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think what I'm going to end up doing is a driveway flush pretty much like Randii posted up waaaaaay back in '03

Quote
1.) Take the outflow hose off the transmission, and put a 10-foot extension on it... route that extension up and over the passenger door mirror so that gravity keeps the fluid in the hose instead of running out)... drop the open end of that hose in a 5-gallon bucket, and duct tape it to the side of the bucket so it doesn't jump out and douse your driveway.
2.) Take another 5-gallon bucket and drill/tap/TRV a bung into the bottom of it
3.) Connect another 10-foot extension hose to that bung, and place the bucket on the hood (on a towel if you have nice paint). Duct tape it down, too, for the same reasons stated above.
4.) Connect the other end of this extension hose to where the inflow hose connects to the transmission.
5.) Use a tube-clamp or a set of vice grips to clamp off the extension hose near the bucket.
6.) Fill the bucket with tranny fluid (Walmart has it in 1-gallon containers for cheap)... you want to use at least one-and-a-half times what the owners manual specs for your transmission to account for what's in the hoses. Me, I'd just drop the dime and put in two-and-a-half times the specced quantity to insure a thorough flush.
7.) Remove the pinch clamp or vise grips (this will start a slow gravity-cycle of the fluid), then start the vehicle, and cycle it through its gears. Keep an eye on the bucket fluid level and shut the vehicle off when you run out of feed fluid.
8.) Disconnect and drain the extension lines and quickly reattach the factory cooler lines -- any fluid you lose while doing this can be topped off shortly.
9.) Restart the vehicle, run it through its gears again, then top off the tranny fluid through the filler or dipstick.
10.) Cap off the 5 gallon bucket of used fluid and take it to a recycle depot.
11.) Wipe out the inside of the feed bucket, throw some paper towels in the bottom, then label and bag all the extension lines, clamps, etc. that you used, and put them in the bucket, too. Cap off this bucket and put in in the garage for the next time you want to do this task.
12.) Post here and tell us how easy it was, and how much you saved...

NOTES:
Clear tube will help you see when you're out of fluid in the feed bucket... and will also help you see the change in old fluid and new fluid.
This will change out MOST of your fluid, but not all -- I'd guess 90%. See my previous message for ways to keep the fluid clean in the first place...


I'll switch to synthetic, and swap it out after running through a little bit should the tranny somehow survive. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


when looking for a container to hold drained brake fluid, find a container that is different from the beverage you are currently consuming.
Re: 4L30E advice please [Re: HCMP] #629231 07/29/05 07:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 481
taro Offline
Mudrunner
Jeremy,

regardless of how you change the fluid, i would definitely change the filter, like maybe daily for a few days. when i was doing some research, the places that offered tranny flushes did NOT change the filter because in their view it was unnecessary. if the theory is that new fluid can loosen crap in the tranny, i definitely would install a new filter and pray that it catches said crap before it does any damage. this may sound extreme, but the price for a reman or used tranny plus shipping is extreme.

also, i would not do the top off thing because (a) it would suck to have to top it off on a regular basis for an indefinite period of time and (b) being out it the sticks not knowing when your tranny might go sucks. good luck!

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