I think you have to ask which model Wranger. Be careful with the new Rubicon, I don't think you can make much of an arguement that it doesn't surpass even the top of the line Isuzu in the stock offroad category... but lets face it, thats what Jeep built it to do and they have the luxury to do that.

With some of the lesser models (again speaking, stock to stock), the line becomes more blured and I don't think you can make a strong case for either one being exceptionally better than the other offroad.

-Rob

DITTO!

My thoughts exactly, Rob. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />



Whenever I have one of those inevitable encounters with a ôReal 4x4ö owner, whoÆs standing there looking at my Rodeo with one of those unmistakable æThere ainÆt no way that thing could keep up with ME!Æ sort-of-looks on their faceà

If I have the time - I always try to introduce myself and find a way to steer the conversation toward the modifications that IÆve added, with the sincere hope that the light bulb will go off over their head, wherein theyÆll realize that mine isnÆt simply a æMall CrawlerÆ wanna-beà Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesnÆt û and it really doesnÆt bother me if the attempt failsà because once in a while I get lucky and meet someone whoÆs a whole lot more interested in the sport itself, rather than what brand of vehicle I use to get me there.

If I donÆt have the time - I just nod politely and walk away û smiling û knowing that in all likelihood my Rodeo could probably school them off-road - or at the very least, do a mighty fine job of keeping up with them, and leave them scratching their head as to how I was able to do it.


In the end, it really doesnÆt matter what you drive, as long as you enjoy yourselfà

Like the saying says:
Trail Rigs are BUILT, not bought.
(* Except maybe the Rubiconà That thing is just-plain SWEET-EVIL, right off the showroom floor! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> )



Good luck with your decision û although naturally, for obvious reasons - of course, everyone here is probably hoping youÆll choose the Amigo. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I give great props to the Rubicon. We have several guys here at work that let me see theirs off-road. By that, I mean the parking lot. One guy took his into the dirt, the others still talk about it. Our most capible jeeps here are all built, and not from Rubicons.

What Jeep did that was so great was to break out the bean-counters, number-crunchers, and insurance actuaries, three of the most boring people in the auto industry, but three of the most important.

They poured over all that data showing more and more 4x4's sold, and less and less (both in raw numbers and %-wise for actuall use) going off road where they might get hurt (graded forest road doesn't count as "high risk off-roading"). The risk factors were crunched, and the next thing you know and locker is stock, with a warantee. While pricey, it's still cheap considering what it takes to purchase and install one, which then *voids* your warantee.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> Three cheers to a real American 4x4 hero--the nerdy guy in the corner with the green lampshade and the funny green visor/hat.

Because as soon as Jeep proved it was not only feasible, but profitible, everyone else started copying. (*) Those new XTerras? Stock locked. Many of the new trucks (I'm not going to all the websites to add them up): Stock locked. And it keeps spreading.

And if Isuzu, on their triumphant return, doesn't offer it when I'm ready to re-purchase....I might go elsewhere.

(*) The idea that Image could sell over need or use was never a surprise. The entire advertising industry is founded on it. Harley Davidson exists because of it. Cars are a pretty much a necessity. Motorcycles aren't.

Wayne, I'm not really sure what you are saying. You didnt <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> before you posted did you? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Vehicles have been available with stock lockers for a long time, mostly toyotas of all sorts. I don't think it has much to do with liability, just demand.
Also, the new Rubicon has alot more than just a rear locker to define itself as an "off-road" model. Low gears, big axles, F/R lockers, lots of stuff that costs 10k extra.

But anywaaaayyy... back to the topic. I support the notion that it all goes back to personal taste. I think most people (myself included) tend to want more vehicle and more mods than they really need in most off-road situations, and if I were you, I would drive em both and stare at both for awhile. Consider the other factors such as reliablity, insurance, etc. and make the decision. Take whatever vehicle you choose off roading, and find out the limits. Then the fun part: build it up and see how those limits change! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Obviously, I was unaware they were commonly available on passenger-type vehicles. I thought that was part of why it was big news. But I am loving the competition to make more off-road options and the most rugged vehicle at the lowest price.

My ignorance now returns to the regularly scheduled topic.

Before I bought my Trooper (not an Amigo, but it has a lot in common, IFS, MUA-5, etc. No D-44 of course), I was looking for a TJ or YJ. I decided that I would only buy an I6, but couldn't find one for what I felt was a fair price. As common as they are, you'd think they'd be cheaper. For what I use it for, the Trooper is perfect. I've always liked Amigos too. It seems that Chrysler products feel flimsy IMHO. Jeeps have a huge aftermarket, but if I had a car payment I wouldn't be able to afford accessories anyway! Either the Wrangler or the Amigo would be a good choice (just don't put a "Roxy" decal on the back). Or a Trooper <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yeah it is sweet and glad I own one, but you still have to build it. The only difference is I'm starting with a different foundation. O'ya I wheel mine as well. Less than 100 miles on it I was already on 2.0 rated, when I finished my rock rails and rear bumper I was on the 4.0 rated (less than 4, 000 miles).

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I had to respond to this quote...



This is a shot of me and my VehiCROSS (no lift or lockers) rescuing a stuck Rubicon Wrangler while wheeling in the Badlands Off Road Park. "Only in a Jeep" my a**!
Isuzus "Go Farther"!
So... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" />

what is he stuck on? did the VX make it through there unassisted?

obvisously driver skill is always part of the equation no matter what. But that aside, only looking at features... I'm sorry, but I still have to give it to the Rubicon, hands down.

-Rob

I can't remember how he got stuck, only that I had just gone through there & had to pull him. The Rubicon is quite tricked out from the factory and I don't hate Jeeps, but I do love shocking the hell out of Jeepers that think my VX is a Rav4 or something. Again... it's driving something unique!