Extreme Terrain
4x4Wire Trail Talk Forums: Jeep, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pajero, Isuzu, Kia, 4WD, 4x4, SUV, Off-Road and OutdoorWire Forums


Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap #702051 03/02/06 07:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 965
Starchild Offline OP
Rock Warrior
I've about got myself talked into blazing the trail of the Th700R4/ Dana 300 swap instead of replacing my ailing 4L30E. I've been searching, reading, and re-reading everything I can find on the subject, here and elsewhere. I'm to the point where I'm starting to look for good deals on the major components. In the mean time, I can now trailer the Passport to the trail to finish off my trans <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

The basics:
TH700R4 from a 87-88 S-10 4x4, 2.8L
Dana 300 from a 84ish Jeep CJ
JB Conversions adapter/ clocking plate

I'm still learning my way around an auto trans, and I'm sure a lot of things will become clearer once I have the parts in hand, but here are the unresolved issues (at least as far as my searching has revealed):

-Flex plate / torque converter modifications

Does the stock plate need to be used in order to engage the starter? I've seen reference to modifications or a custom application. Is this just to get the stock plate to bolt up to the converter?

-Torque converter

I've seen reference that the TH700R4 has a lock-up converter, and that this would somehow need to be connected to the throttle <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> (showing my ignorance). Any clarification on this would be helpfull.

Will I be able to reuse the stock auto shifter?


I'll worry abou the speedo connection later, as it appears to be a minor issue. I'm planning on running the Dana 300 stock for now, with a single shifter, but the 4:1 and twin stick is a nice option to have. I'm going to have to do new shafts for my SAS, so this mod will transition nicely <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I've got a built waggy D44 lined up, so I'll be clocking the T-case for a pass drop.

I welcome any input with ideas, things I may have missed, or parts you have lying around.


"SERENITY NOW!"

1995 Passport - TH700R4 - Twin-sticked Dana300 w/tera 4:1 - Leaf sprung SAS w/Dana 60/14BFF - 38.5x11 Boggers - DOR bumper w/ MM SE9500
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Starchild] #702052 03/02/06 07:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 777
Jonesy Offline
Rock Warrior
I believe Koby(KOBYHUD on here) is going to attempt this as well.

He has a post going on our local board...so maybe the 2 of you can pioneer this and keep good records and bounce ideas off each other.

Here is his post on our site:

http://zutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=515

Steve


'97 Rodeo
3.2L V6
DOR 3" lift, 3"BL, DOR Boulder Bars, Tera-Low's, 33x10.5,Surco Safari Rack, Cobra CB, Rancho 9000's....andnNow with Half-Doors for the summer
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Jonesy] #702053 03/02/06 07:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 965
Starchild Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
I believe Koby(KOBYHUD on here) is going to attempt this as well.


Sweet! Just PM'd him <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


"SERENITY NOW!"

1995 Passport - TH700R4 - Twin-sticked Dana300 w/tera 4:1 - Leaf sprung SAS w/Dana 60/14BFF - 38.5x11 Boggers - DOR bumper w/ MM SE9500
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Starchild] #702054 03/02/06 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,394
houlster Offline
Isuzu Moderator
Quote

-Flex plate / torque converter modifications

Does the stock plate need to be used in order to engage the starter? I've seen reference to modifications or a custom application. Is this just to get the stock plate to bolt up to the converter?


The key things are: The flexplate bolts to the engine crank and it's teeth must engage the starter.

The TC bolts to the flexplate.

The TC is splined and engages the input shaft of the tranny.

When you've got a combo that wasn't factory, you need to make sure that you have a flexplate that will bolt to your motor, bolt to the TC *and* make sure the TC is at the correct depth so it engages the tranny input shaft.

The easiest way is *usually* to use the stock flexplate that bolts to your motor. Hopefully, the shape of the plate is such that you can easily drill the holes needed for the TC lugs to bolt to the plate. If not, another option is to make new lugs for the converter. Drill and thread some chunks of steel, bolt to the stock TC bolt holes in your flexplate and weld the lugs to the converter. The key is to make them all consistanly the same size and weight and to uses an equal amount of welding on them. TC's are balanced and you don't want to mess that up too much. You will also need a jig to allign the TC centerline with the flexplate doing this.

While doing this, keep in mind that the TC has to sit a precise distance off the back of the motor when it's all bolted up so it's splines will engage the tranny input shaft fully, but not too far to bind. I've found you have about 3 - 5mm to play with on AW4's, the TH700 has probably a similar range.

If you're lucky, the TC will be a little too shallow and you can use small spacers on the TC lugs to space it back and make up the difference. If you're not, the TC will be too deep and you'll have to shave the TC lugs down, make new ones that are shorter, space the bellhousing back or go with a custom flexplate.

Also there may be a problem with the snout of the TC. Some TC's have a snout that extends forward and engages the pilot hole in the back of the crank. My AW4 TC does this, but the 4L60-E TC I have does not. The TH700 TC probably will not either but you might need to watch for it.

In the end, if mixing and matching parts doesn't get you close to what you need, a custom flexplate is usually the best option. You can take care of nearly all issues (depth, bolt patterns, TC snout...) with a custom flexplate.

Quote

-Torque converter

I've seen reference that the TH700R4 has a lock-up converter, and that this would somehow need to be connected to the throttle <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> (showing my ignorance). Any clarification on this would be helpfull.


Lock up is not required, but it is a good idea. You can make it manual if you like. It's activated electrically and elliminates the slip in the converter. On long hills on the highway for instance, the constant slip under load can put out a lot of heat and your tranny temp starts to spike. A locked up converter can prevent this slip/heat. It gives better compression braking down hills when locked up. Not sure on the TH700, but I think most won't lock up in 1st gear even if you trip the solenoid. Anyways, you can throw in a toggle switch and do lock-up manually.

What *does* need to be hooked up to the throttle and adjusted properly is the kick-down (or 'TV') cable. This is what tells the tranny to kick down when you floor it and it also increases line pressure with more throttle. If it's not hooked up correctly you can get excessive slip in the clutches from improper line pressure and burn the tranny up.


Quote

Will I be able to reuse the stock auto shifter?


Probably. If it's a cable shifter, it'll be a little easier to do.

--Dan

Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: houlster] #702055 03/02/06 09:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 965
Starchild Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Great explanation Dan <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />, that helps a lot!

Regarding the lock-up - is this a function of the trans or TC? It sounds like the lock-up would be activated by the trans, and would need to be connected to a lock-up enabled TC?

I think a manual lock-up would be the way to go. I don't anticipate many highway miles, but don't want to rule it out.

Hypothetically <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, if one were to forget to turn off the manual lock-up when decelerating from highway speed, would the engine just stall out?

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />Andre


"SERENITY NOW!"

1995 Passport - TH700R4 - Twin-sticked Dana300 w/tera 4:1 - Leaf sprung SAS w/Dana 60/14BFF - 38.5x11 Boggers - DOR bumper w/ MM SE9500
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Starchild] #702056 03/02/06 11:04 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,394
houlster Offline
Isuzu Moderator
Quote
Great explanation Dan <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />, that helps a lot!

Regarding the lock-up - is this a function of the trans or TC? It sounds like the lock-up would be activated by the trans, and would need to be connected to a lock-up enabled TC?


Lock-up is a TC and trans function. There is a clutch inside the TC that locks the two halves together. It is electrically engaged (via a solenoid in the tranny), but hydraulics is what powers the clutch. So to turn it on, you need a brain that turns the solenoid on (you, if you're going with pure manual), and you need to be in a gear that the tranny will send hyraulic fluid to the clutch.

Quote

Hypothetically <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, if one were to forget to turn off the manual lock-up when decelerating from highway speed, would the engine just stall out?


Probably not. Like I mentioned, I think most trannys will *not* power the clutch in first gear even if the solenoid is on. The hydro fluid is not routed to it in this gear. Depends entirely on the tranny though. Also, the TC clutch is not exactly a high performance clutch. It will stay locked at cruise and maybe braking down a hill, but under full power, or braked at a stop it may slip rather than kill the motor. Again, it depends on the tranny, TC and motor.

--Dan

Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: houlster] #702057 03/04/06 02:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 965
Starchild Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Now that I've got a better handle on the terminology and parts, I've found a lot of good reference material.

A few links for future reference:
Lockup TCC Wiring
Auto Overdrive Swap
General drivetrain tech

I think I'm starting to get a handle on this stuff <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cyclops.gif" alt="" />


"SERENITY NOW!"

1995 Passport - TH700R4 - Twin-sticked Dana300 w/tera 4:1 - Leaf sprung SAS w/Dana 60/14BFF - 38.5x11 Boggers - DOR bumper w/ MM SE9500
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Starchild] #702058 03/05/06 10:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 965
Starchild Offline OP
Rock Warrior
I've found that the bolt circle pattern for the TH700R4 torque converter should be 10.75".

Does anyone know the bolt pattern for the stock Isuzu 3.2L flex plate?


"SERENITY NOW!"

1995 Passport - TH700R4 - Twin-sticked Dana300 w/tera 4:1 - Leaf sprung SAS w/Dana 60/14BFF - 38.5x11 Boggers - DOR bumper w/ MM SE9500
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Starchild] #702059 03/12/06 07:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,994
Bansil Offline
Body Damage is Cool
The "TV" cable connection is a little more important on this tranny,example on the TH350 the connection is souley a "kickdown" cable,it's not even needed for tranny to work(tranny will not auto downshift though).
On the TH700 it's main purpose is to control line pressure at part throttle thru WOT.The factory type adjustment of the cable can easily be made to work on carb type vehicles.

Check with Lokar,TCI and such for custom mounts/cables that will work with the rotating throttle body the engines use with throttlebody body mounted forward.....maybe something V-8 like TPI.
Good luck bro'

Bansil





98 Rodeo(hers)
00 Rodeo(his)

Lisa's Rodeo
Re: Passport TH700R4/ Dana 300 swap [Re: Bansil] #702060 03/14/06 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 965
Starchild Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
Check with Lokar,TCI and such for custom mounts/cables that will work with the rotating throttle body the engines use with throttlebody body mounted forward.....maybe something V-8 like TPI.


Thanks Doug <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> I'll talk with my tranny guy about that tomorrow. He called today to say my trans is ready for pickup. I found someone local, who came recomended, and he happened to have the exact trans I need, already rebuilt. He upgraded the servos, and added a shift kit and TC for $750 with no core.

I've been talking with Jerry Lemond a bit lately about this swap. He's pretty sure we can find a stock Isuzu flex plate that will bolt up with minor modifications. He's going to be at Uwharrie next month with a selection of TC's and flex plates. I'll have my new TC, and we'll mix and match, and take some measurements. I'll also be picking up my Dana 300 at Uwharrie.

I'm going to try my luck at using a stock adapter to mate the T-case and trans. I've read a couple of posts on Pirate about using a stock adapter from a full size with a NP208, which uses a 5 bolt pattern. This adapter matches up with 5 of the 6 mounting bolts for the Dana 300, and the 6th can be made to work. Considering I can pick up this adapter for $30, I think I'll give it a try before I buy a $450 adapter kit. The Dana 300 output shaft will need to be changed regardless, so I just need to find a place that sells it separate from the kit.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />Andre


"SERENITY NOW!"

1995 Passport - TH700R4 - Twin-sticked Dana300 w/tera 4:1 - Leaf sprung SAS w/Dana 60/14BFF - 38.5x11 Boggers - DOR bumper w/ MM SE9500
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3







4x4Wire Social:

| 4x4Wire on FaceBook |


OutdoorWire, 4x4Wire, JeepWire, TrailTalk, MUIRNet-News, and 4x4Voice are all trademarks and publications of OutdoorWire, Inc. and MUIRNet Consulting.
Copyright (c) 1999-2019 OutdoorWire, Inc and MUIRNet Consulting - All Rights Reserved, no part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without express written permission
You may link freely to this site, but no further use is allowed without the express written permission of the owner of this material.
All corporate trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.006s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 0.6522 MB (Peak: 0.7881 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2026-05-25 20:02:37 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS