As I said in the Toyota forum.... don't flame on me too badly... I am very new to the 4x4 "thing".

I am currently contemplating buying my first ever 4x4... I have an AWD... but that is a car.... a little different.

I narrowed my choices down to a Tacoma, 4Runner or a Wrangler... so I have some question about the Wranglers.

I do not foresee any sort of HARDCORE rock crawling or anything... just general off roading with a desire to be able to do more later if I want.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the Wrangler safrom 1990 to the current ones? I am looking to spend no more than $10K and I know I will want the I6 engine. What are the advantages of the newer suspension over the older (leaf springs vs coil overs)? What other things should guild my shopping for a Jeep? What are the advantages/disadvantages on an auto vs manual tranny when off roading?

I really don't know what the right questions are to ask... I have ben so soaked in the import sports car environment for so long that I don't knwo where to begin. I currently drive an 01 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS and will retain it for a daily driver.

Help point a newbie in the right direction? The FAQ doesn't have a whole lot of info.

Thanks!
Casey

Welcome to the board. You must have been burned somewhere! Don't worry about it here. I have never wheeled off road in much other than Jeeps but I do ride with other types/brands of vehicles. One of the biggest Advantages I like about Wranglers over the others is the choice of going topless and in some cases windshieldless off road. The Jeep was originally designed to replace motorcycles in the Army And thats what I bought mine for. Riding a bike just got too painful and dangerous for me to enjoy it any more but I love being in the open when exploring or just riding off road. Other advantages are parts availability, and manueverability. The later Wanglers are the most comfortable to ride in I hear, due to their coil spring suspensions. I've never tried it myself, . The 4.0L six is a well proven and powerful engine and parts for it are generally cheaper than Imports. An advantage of a manual tranny is control. It will also not quit working because the oil pump lost suction on an extreme angle like an auto can. That is not an issue for mild offroading and not having to deal with a clutch and shifting offroad can be nice also. Its a matter of preference. The biggest disadvantage of a Wrangler vs the Tacoma and the 4 runner IMO is the lack of space for passengers and/or cargo. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

The ability to go topless in the Wrangler is one of the big draws to it... I had a friend when I was early in college that had a Wrangler and just cruising around town with the top off was really nice... I can't imagine it off road...

As for being burned on forums, I come from one of the worst for crucifying newbie questions... www.nasioc.com (North American Subaru Impreza Owners' Club)... aka Nabisco... and a vague newbie question like mine would result in a total flame out at a cross... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> So far 4x4wire has been awesome...

A short video for anyone to watch... it is always amazing to me how much footage I can shoot before getting enough to do anything with... this is from 1.5 hours of footage... and the passenger seat of a LR Discovery 2...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1748217443542852280&q=group555&pl=true

Higher quality if you download it

Well I cannot tell you how a Toyota Tacoma or 4runner is off road but I have owned an import 4x4 and it was fairly dependable and had a good platform for mild offroading. I drove a Dodge Raider/ Mitsubishi Montero SWB. It had an independent front suspension like the Toys. It will work well for mild offroading. I do have to point out that you can lift them but the lifts are pricey, as most parts for imports are pricey. I sold the Raider because I found that I wanted more than it could provide w/o major re-engineering of the suspension. I am loving owning the Jeep and do not regret switching. A 97 and up Wrangler(TJ) w/ a Dana 44 rear end (you have to seek out this option) will not leave to wanting more for a while, but trust me when you off road a Wrangler, it is like drugs (never tried them but this is what it has to be like) You will go from minor trail riding to more advanced stuff. This is the "Jeep thing" and you have to drive one to understand, and it has nothing to with the smugness that the stickers suggest. Test drive them all, Top down on that Wrangler on a beautiful spring day is tough to beat.
You may be able to rent a Jeep Wrangler in your area, a member of my club rented a Rubicon Unlimited recently, so they have to be out there. I guess you may have to expand on what you want your 4x4 to do, do you have to tow anything? Do you have to drive it long distances? Will you expect to haul anything with it? The auto is OK off road, but the few people that own them have mentioned that if they had to do it again they would go manual. The autos do not have good vents on them and it doesn't take much depth of water to get it in the trans. I guess it has to be a preference and mine is manual, It kinda adds to the Jeep experience I guess.

A soft top can be a blessing and and an enemy. It is nice to drop it in a shot time, but it gets old having to put it back up sometimes, The TJ is much easier than my old YJ. The soft top can be noisy on the interstate and can leak, where you can get a hard top but you can't just pull it off easily and anywhere like a soft top, but it is much quieter and more weather proof.

If youve got 10k to spend, search out a 2001 or newer Wrangler. They came stock from the factory with the Sailcloth soft top. Ive never actually traveled in a Wrangler that has one of these, but everything ive read said it cuts the sound level in half!

I just bought a 98 TJ. I really love it, although it IS a bit loud on the street.

I looked at 4runners as well. If you go with a Gen 1 4runnner, you actually CAN go semi topless. However, taking these hard tops off can result in leaks, as getting them back on properly is almost impossible due to the seals that Toyota used. Shoot for a 1985 4Runner if you want one. They where the last year that had solid axles and the first year with Fuel Injection. STAY away from the 3.0L V6 if you go with a Gen 1. Only problems with those, wayyyy underpowered, and bad gas miliage.

Concerning the Tacoma, I never really looked at one, but there are PLENTY of tacomas around!

As for the Jeeps, they are very nice. The soft top is definatly a blessing. I have driven a convertible for 2 years now (1998 Chrystler Sebring) and I would rather have a manual folding top over an electric. Although getting my top down on the Sebring was as simple as flipping to handles, and hitting a switch, the top no longer works because of some problem with the top motor. With a manual top, there are no motor problems <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Another thing with Wranglers, DO NOT put anything valuable in one, they are possibly one of the eaisest cars to break into on the roads today. I leave my doors unlocked, because if someone wants my stereo, id rather have them open the door, rather then cut through my vinyl. Im thinking of leaving a note for the criminal directing him to screwdrivers to get the stereo out too, less damage to the car itself <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> (My CD Player in the jeep is crap haha)

Another thing, dont put down the 4cyl right away. Mine is a 4 cylinder and I really have no problems with it so far. It keeps up in traffic, and it gets slightly better fuel miliage..

im with these guys the wrangler would be the better option do to the cost and instalation alone.you also have to figure in the shorter wheel base ,which makes for better manuvering ability.When you get into any upgrades on the japanease trucks it tends to get expensive alot faster than in a jeep.

wrangler all the way. for 10k you will get a lower mileage better condition jeep then either of the toys. having been on many wheeling trips with a mix of vehicles I can not say a stock jeep is any better at crawling through the woods but you can do a lot more with them for less money (lift kits,repair of broken parts)what ever you decide welcome 4 wheelin'

Welcome!

I used to have a Rodeo and I loved it every bit of it. But I drove a Jeep with the top and doors off and I was hooked! For 10K you should be able to get a great TJ and if you shop for around you can get a TJ for less like 7 or 8K and have money left over for mods <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> because face it your here because you just can't leave it stock <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" /> have fun wheeling what ever you get.

Hey Texas - Just remember, JEEP stands for "Just Empty Every Pocket" haha. I have a 1998 4 banger TJ and although it goes zero to sixty in 5 minutes (exaggeration, obviously) I've tackled some pretty tough stuff with the only modifications i've done to it being bigger tires - 31 x 10.50 mickey thompson baja claws.

Somebody on here mentioned the sailcloth top - i replaced my old OEM top back in 2004 with the bestop sailcloth and it IS quieter than the stock top. I like it, even tho a hardtop would be awesome up here in buffalo, NY for winter.

The greatest thing i love about wranglers is you can make it whatever you want for a decent price. If you wanna make it the biggest baddest rock crawler out there, you can. If you want to make it a weekend warrior that will still get you to work on monday, you can. Thats what i'm doing to mine - 3" teraflex suspension, not sure about the shocks yet, superwinch 9000 up front. I'm not a gearhead like some of these guys are so i haven't done the locker thing but for weekend trail riding and getting dirty, you don't really need 'em.

For those sticky situations where a locker WOULD come in handy, though, I would recommend a decent winch (warn, superwinch, ramsey) with pulling pounds to spare and a top of the line battery (optima red top), just in case you get a little excited and get in over your head <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> (no matter which kind of 4x4 you get)

Disadvantages - wranglers are REALLY just about 2 seaters only because if you're doing any serious camping, that back seat is coming out and being replaced with gear for the weekend, unless you have the rack up top. Other than that, don't keep anything you want to lose in the car itself, get a nice ignition security system and some wheel locks and you're all set.

Top down, doors off - its the only way to go!

I can only tyell you what I've experinced with 4x4's.

I have an 88 V6 4runner, the type with the removable top. VERY capable off road. Easy to lift and modify. Downside is the 3.0 liter V6 is prone to head gasket failure. Granted I have 265,000 miles on the origional motor but the HG is spendy to replace.

I also have a 1992 6 cly auto Jeep Cherokee. Pretty much bullet proof (knocks on wood desk) engine and transmission. It currently has 190,000 on the clock and runs great. Gas milage is about the same.

I rented a Jeep Rubicon in Hawaii when I got married and was a little dissappointed in how poorly it rode. Felt really stiff and wandered on the highway. Capable off road but very little if any storage and the dash seemed unusually high. I'm 6'1" and felt like the seat was too low to see well.

I'd say if you get a Toyota look for a 3.4 liter V6 or the good old 22R 4cyl. I'm fairly neew to the Jeep scene so I don't which years are jems and which are so so.

The Cherokee I have seems to run great for a high milage rig. Of course get a compession test on a used truck and avoid rigs that have obviously been used to tow a trailer.

Good luck!