The top that is pictured is something like 15+ years old, and you can see what they look like.

Re: Pirate4x4. I have polls out on the major boards to see if I have enough interest to get a manufacturer to take over production. I've talked to a couple of them. One seemed real interested.

[img]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Smiles/lolup.gif[/img][img]http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e191/SCHooch1/Smiles/lolup.gif[/img]

Now that you mention it, it does resemble a hearse! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />
I wouldnt buy one without a window there either.

Hey '86, I noticed all the flack you are getting on Pirate.
Just a note, many of those guys have good points. However I'd keep in mind what one fellow said also, there are many folks who are just very hard-core DIYers and as part of that pretty cheap, and also critical - they want things just perfect.
SO I'd keep in mind that alot of those guys are just not the target audience for this top. Personally I think it'd be fabulous to be available, and I'd buy one if teh price was reasonable. However in teh end, I'm sure (for you) it just coem to a matter of balancing teh cost of production/sale verses what peopel are willing to pay for it. But I wouldn't count on getting rich, that's for sure.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm building a Sunbrella top for my 4Runner and pattern layout will use about 10 yards from a standard 60" wide bolt to make just the canopy itself.( http://www.seattlefabrics.com/sunbrella.html )
So far I'm up to $250 in fabric including UV stable tinted boat glass,heavyweight sunbrella, Tex 90 bonded nylon thread and lots of Aqua seal for seam sealing. Bars and hardware add another $100 (this is what I've paid for marine hardware).

It's the labor that will kill you. Fortunatly I have many years of experience with sewing upholstery and leather so my labor cost is minimal. I did pay twice what a shop would for the raw materials.
All said and done this top will probobly run about $500 in raw materials.I'll need to buy lots of buckles and webbing before I'm done so another hundered or so is expected. Could go cheaper but I really want it to last.

I'm guessing if you went to an uphostery shop specializing in marine tops they would ding you about a grand to build what you have. If you built your own frame and supplied the materials,$500 in labor to sew and fit it.

I've looked into tops for the 4Runner and unfortunatly there aren't many option avalable. I don't care for vinyl personally so Kayline is out. Canbacks are great but cost too much.

The sunbrealla will last much longer than vinyl, your's should be good for many years to come. If you wanted to get one made the cheapest would be to take yours to a top maker and have them copy the design.

On the CanBack critique, I do not regard having to have the frame as a minus. In fact, that is why I selected the CanBack: the frame is durable and will support a rack, rather important to me. The hearse look is a downer and I really don't want to fold down the whole top only to put up a bikini, when I could have a top that allows me to simply roll up the sides.

The CanBack downer in comparison is road noise at highway speed. The bonus is rain protection even with the sides rolled up.

I had the Kayline/STS soft top and it's a great piece but I still don't think that one is worth the price. I prefer the Kayline/STS style over this hearse look and the material doesn't matter to me as much because it's going on a 17-21 year old vehicle. I made my own rail mounts like Roger had on his site and it worked great. I can't see paying more than $450 for any soft top since you will most likely remove it for the winter anyway. I left my soft top down almost the entire summer until we finally started to get some rain.

I'll give my .02 cents:

What about making the rear quarter windows an optional add-on? It seems that many people would like to have the windows and feel that they'd be missing out without them. I've owned several 4Runners of this vintage (though none right now), and I'd say this is one of the better looking tops I've seen. I like the fact that it has the bikini top included, that it folds down, and that it requires no drilling, and uses the factory rear glass. Most tops that I've seen don't include all of these things. If I own another 4Runner of this vintage, I will want to get a soft top for it, and I guess I'd like to have the option of having a top with those rear quarter windows, and one without. Looking at the frame structure it appears that the rear support would be in the way and might cause scuffing?. If so, perhaps splitting a rear OEM-shaped window into two triangles would work. Basically, it would be a strip of canvas running with the support bracket with the triangle-sections above and below. I suppose the support could be moved, but that would probably be more difficult and possibly make the "collapse-ability" of the frame impossible.

Overall I do like the top very much, but as for a fair price I guess it should be priced similar to competitive products (otherwise if it's priced too high it won't sell). Lastly, I would have to agree that the pirate4x4 board can be a very difficult place to get feedback without getting flamed/insulted/hung.

Thanks for the input everyone. Let me address a few items that have come up.

#1 I have no intention of making a bunch of money on this. If I did, I would have quit a long time ago. It just doesn't make sense given my profession (SW & Electrical engineer) & access to equipment (only my in-law's metal working shop). I just don't want to lose a bunch of money <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

#2 This fabric, Haartz StayFast, runs about $88-100/yd in small quantities. Taking Seattlegti's use of 10 yards, you can see that the fabric will quickly eat up your budget. That's not including any skilled labor (I'm not skilled). But to re-iterate, this fabric is premium and will last 3X+ longer than vinyl. (but then maybe I'm just weird in that I'm still driving the same rig 20 years later <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />)

#3 Ratlabguy, I expected that kind of response from Pirate. I have thick skin <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mrt.gif" alt="" />. I'm sort of a DIY guy too, but quality soft tops are out of my range. When I saw this design, I knew that it was the best out there for my needs.

Again, Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep you posted as things progress (or not).

Maybe this is crazy... but... what if you were to make the same thing, but cut back a little on the fabric used? Maybe not back off to vinyl, but maybe just a cheaper (money-wise) canvas. Reading through the posts, the one thing I see over and over again is that many folks pretty much expect it to wear out, or to ruin it anyway, and do not want to spend much $$$. Lets face it, this is like 1/3-1/2 the value of the vehicle! I am a real believer in quality myself, and not consider my 4Runner "disposable" - however I'm not confident I will have it in 10 years... and much less 20. Even Jeep guys expect to replace their tops after awhile.
my point is, in this case it might be worth changing materials IF it will dramatically lower the cost - AKA go to a canvas-backed vinyl that is only $30/yard. I have bough that at my local store to make bikini tops w/ no problems yet.
Many people aparently just do not think the "quality is worth teh extra $$ - they;d buy by $$ first and longevity second. Just my 2 (more) cents.