Absolutely. The current general ratio for the ethanol is about a 1.4:1 gain over the energy inputs to grow, harvest, ship, and manufacture the ethanol. So we get 40% more energy out than we put in. The oil industry itself only operates at a 0.88:1 ratio, when accounting for all its energy inputs. Individual ethanol producers will operate above or below the industry average. The newer plants are findings significant efficiency gains and I expect to see a 2:1 ratio in the next 5 years. There's a lot of innovation going on.

The chief critics of the ethanol industry get a lot of press, but their actual data has been soundly debunked. Pimental is the chief critic that gets a lot of air play. But his data is based on corn yields and conversion rates from the 1970s. He typically cites himself in his non-peer reviewed studies.

Further, if you talk to the ethanol industry, they see cellulosic ethanol as the main source in the future. Cellulosic ethanol is based on the non-starch biomass (like switchgrass or corn stalks). The key challenge is the economics of converting cellulose to sugars for fermentation. There is a lot of research effort in this area. Energy ratios will go up significantly with cellulosic ethanol. So we should view the current ways we produce ethanol as a transition period, not an end to itself.

I wonder if our trucks could run on a full tank of E85 and if it'd do any damage to them..?
If I see it around here I'll try filling up when I still have a little over half a tank too.

Crossing the plains last summer I topped-up with three consecutive tanks of E85. If the fuel was available locally I'd still be using it. EFI brain did it's job as I did not experience any noticable detonation/pinging... 22RE RV.

FWIW, I'm making major adjustments to reduce my use of fuel - this is serious business, now. Dramatic environmental changes, neocon geopolitical disaster in Middle East, peak oil and exponential increase in global demand are very real and convincing arguments. Anyone who reads and gets their news some place other than FOX "gets it" too. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

Amen MrWiretender!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> I'm right there with you.

So the computer can adjust that much? I didn't think the injectors could keeep up with the need for more fuel, but maybe I am wrong.

lol. guess the Admins are busy tracking down hackers. I figured this one would be bumped by now...

Found an interesting site: http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php

How about we all start riding mountain bikes and get kicked off all the single track trails <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />

>>>*My own feeling is we are looking at a very BIG future source of energy for vehicles.

There are a lot of other possible options, all with even more drawbacks, the big one being our travel is based on internal combustion engines.

So this means the industry to create/support these types of vehicles is as big as the oil industry, larger actually by far.

Suppose someone came up with a solar powered electric car, and we all woke up tomorrow with one in our driveway? Quite simply, we could drive it to work, but there would be no work.

It goes back to the same issue that created this economy we live in, the easy portability of massive energy in a simple metal container.

Like any energy source we use, including oil, we spend more on it to recover, process and market in total energy than we recover. But the type of energy becomes usable, that supports an entire economy, and that is the way things work.

It is difficult to light ones home with a lump of coal, you see. But converted to electricity with a wonderful delivery system through a simple wire?

Already private enterprise has seen the need, and people with dreams are rushing to fill the need. E85 is growing very rapidly in use, especially in the midwest.

Someone write this down....Watch how fast oil prices fall when they realize they have potential competition...*LOL**...

How does one stop a competitor from taking over a market? Simple stuff, just make it impossible for them to profit.

So here is a wild prediction: 20% and more DROP in the price of gasoline by Fall...*EB

Growing any plant takes CO2 out of the atmosphere. So to get a gain in that regard you have to plant in a desert that would normally have NO plant growth. The cornfield would just as soon grow weeds that are just as good for the atmosphere. That said, I'm thinking of growing beets. Lots of sugar for alcohol and less to no fertilizer or pesticide requirements plus they will grow in a cooler clime like mine. The plans for a still look remarkably similiar to the heat exchangers I used to fab at work. (I installed and built solar water heating systems for 15 years) If you are handy with a torch and solder you might enjoy these links:

Building a worldclass distillation apparatus
Home distillation of alcohol
Build a still.com
You should be able to add 15% without any noticeable effects.

I hope they get the E85 thing down soon, 'cause after Israel drops a nuke on Iran, the stuff's gonna hit the fan, and there won't be any oil coming out of the middle east.

Wow, after reviewing, that's pretty inflamatory.

I will agree with you on at least one point - unfortunately, for too many people the price of gas is not nearly high enough.

The great industrial revolution fueled by cheap energy is a big party coming to an end - that's my prediction. And, waging war in the middle east on trumped-up charges won't/can't even slow it down.

Kuntstler calls it 'The Long Emergency'. article