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CA Smog Issues - Catalytic converter just a patch? #752310 09/18/06 04:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 912
TheBandit Offline OP
Rock Warrior
*EDIT* Emissions were passed afer replacing a bad catalytic converter, but is the truck really fixed???

I rebuilt my 22RE about 30k miles ago using an enginebuilder 270 cam and RV head (slightly bigger SS valves). I haven't had to smog the truck since doing the engine, but recently came up for California's enhanced smog.

Not all of CA does enhanced smog, but for this they put my truck on a dyno and ran it at different loads/speeds. The truck passed this test with the previous (stock, 200kmile) engine, but with the newer engine is has high HCs and COs (NOx is passing, but a little higher than average).

I had an emissions equipment diagnostics done where they checked cylinder balance/compression, ignition, oxygen sensor, egr valve, and afm. They told me everything checked out good and they think the problem is the cam. I do my own work usually, but the truck is getting fixed using the state's money. They wont do any more work unless I replace the cam with a stocker.

I like enginebuilder and I have been really happy with the customer service, part quality, and performance I got out of this. But I have to pass smog to register my truck, so I really need to know if the cam is the culprit.

Does anyone know if the EB 270RV cam is known to make the 22RE unsmoggable in CA enhanced smog test?
UPDATE: After swapping to a stock cam, it's obvious that the EB270 was NOT the problem.

The engine is a 22RE, rebuilt the bottom end and added the 270 cam and RV head at about 30k miles ago.

Last edited by TheBandit; 09/22/06 05:08 AM.

[color:"darkgreen"]1986 4Runner - 4" IFS - 63" Chevys - 33" ATs - 5.29s - Rear Detroit
Sliders - Kayline - Rebuilt 22RE - On Board Air AND Factory AC
www.xtremefabricator.com[/color]
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: TheBandit] #752311 09/18/06 01:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,576
engnbldr Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
>>>*The 270/430 cam design is one we don't produce anymore except to request but I would guess we have around 50 or so of them running in California.
The part I don't know about is that enhanced test.

High CO combined with high HC suggests a mixture going to the rich side for some reason?

I concede to being curious, if you decide to do that, touch bases with me and I will send you a new stock profile to see what happens....*EB


*Beats the he** outa me!....*LOL**...
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: engnbldr] #752312 09/18/06 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 912
TheBandit Offline OP
Rock Warrior
EB, thanks for the response. I'll give you a call in about an hour to discuss the smog results and what the shop told me. I have had three of these enhanced smog tests so far, inbetween which I've repaired miscellaneous problems that didn't seem to change the results.

Laundry list since I failed the first test with this engine:
I have readjusted the valves a few times (new adjuster screws also), pulled the injectors and had them cleaned/balance checked (found one leaky/dripping), replaced the TPS (had a code, don't anymore), new OEM plugwires and NGKs, replaced all the vacuum lines, etc etc etc.


[color:"darkgreen"]1986 4Runner - 4" IFS - 63" Chevys - 33" ATs - 5.29s - Rear Detroit
Sliders - Kayline - Rebuilt 22RE - On Board Air AND Factory AC
www.xtremefabricator.com[/color]
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: TheBandit] #752313 09/18/06 04:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,576
engnbldr Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
>>>*K...But you will reach my son Tod who will have no idea, might be best to just email me. Tod runs the machine shop, he doesn't know about emissions I don't think.

About the only thing I can think of that would cause both high CO and HC is if the added airflow causes the computer to try and compensate by adding fuel, this because added airflow should result in a mildly leaner condition?

In the old days we would just pull a couple of degrees of timing out and go pass the tests.

One trick to try is to loosen the valve lash to stock specs, this shortens the duration and reduces lift slightly while advancing the valve timing. It will run a bit noisier but won't hurt anything, and it might just be enough to keep it from confusing the computer which is almost what has to be happening....*EB


*Beats the he** outa me!....*LOL**...
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: engnbldr] #752314 09/18/06 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,153
4Crawler Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
My '85 passed the dyno test the other year w/ TRD Level 1 cam and a stock head. CO and HC were down near 0, NOx was high though. In my case, it was lack of EGR flow, probably due to a few things. One was the somewhat low RPM for the 15MPH test (around 1800) and the small EGR passages in the early heads. I cleaned and ported the EGR passages in the header and head to maximize flow for the re-test. Also filled w/ 91 octane gas, backed the timing 3-4 degrees and dropped the NOx about 60% to pass. I tested with a new cat and new O2 sensor.

Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: engnbldr] #752315 09/18/06 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 912
TheBandit Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Any idea what the specs are on the TRD Lvl 1 cam? I think the EB cam is 270 degrees advertised duration (not sure about 0.050 specs?) and .430 lift int/exh. I would consider this a fairly mild cam when comparing to the ones I've ran in my small block, but I have no idea what the computer on the 22RE thinks of it.

engnbldr, I will shoot you an email with as much info as I can later today. The shop will continue with state-funded diagnostics if I swap the cam to stock, so I would really like to give that a try. I can also send back the 270 cam if you'd like to inspect it; I have never degreed it, so I dunno if it was ground properly or not.


[color:"darkgreen"]1986 4Runner - 4" IFS - 63" Chevys - 33" ATs - 5.29s - Rear Detroit
Sliders - Kayline - Rebuilt 22RE - On Board Air AND Factory AC
www.xtremefabricator.com[/color]
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: TheBandit] #752316 09/18/06 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,153
4Crawler Offline
Web Wheeler
*****

Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: TheBandit] #752317 09/18/06 06:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,576
engnbldr Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
>>>*The specs on the 270/430 are .222? @ .050" lobe lift and .430" lift, 110? centers, single pattern. The spec should not affect test results.

Pretty mellow actually, about the only times it didn't perform up to snuff was with a very free flowing header setup, then it tended to be lazy at lower RPM.

It is simply area under the curve and really should not affect emissions, locally has been no problem but some States have a lot more rigorous test procedures. I think around here they sight down their thumbnail and cute girls can pass anything.


I would think if a profile was ground wrong it would be really showing up as a drivability issue, besides, they are done on a computerized machine, the operator would need to figure out some way to override the program manually.

So unless they actually misboxed(possible) then a misgrind doesn't happen...*EB


*Beats the he** outa me!....*LOL**...
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: engnbldr] #752318 09/18/06 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 912
TheBandit Offline OP
Rock Warrior
EB, thanks for the specs. I agree 222 @ 050 on 110 is pretty dang mild. I don't imagine there's much overlap on that at all. I told the guys at the shop I really don't think it's the cam, but they told me it really doesn't matter: they can't continue doing work unless I replace it with a stock one.

I bought a Melling stock replacement cam and I'm installing it today. Afterwards, I will take it to the smog shop and let you know what changes if anything. If the 270 cam turns out to be the culprit, will your offer of a stock cam still hold? I could return your stock cam to the local guy for a refund and send the 270 back to you for evaluation.


[color:"darkgreen"]1986 4Runner - 4" IFS - 63" Chevys - 33" ATs - 5.29s - Rear Detroit
Sliders - Kayline - Rebuilt 22RE - On Board Air AND Factory AC
www.xtremefabricator.com[/color]
Re: Anyone pass CA smog with EB head and cam? [Re: TheBandit] #752319 09/19/06 12:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,576
engnbldr Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
>>>*Well. I kinda don't think that would be too fair for the supplier of your stock Melling, they supplied it in good faith.

Still, it is concievable that reducing the duration and lift even more would allow the specs to come back in. My concern is that it still doesn't answer the question of why, since there really isn't a reason for the readings that I can think of....*EB


*Beats the he** outa me!....*LOL**...
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