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Fuel pump questions - round 2 #762910 11/05/06 01:02 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 927
8
89IsMine Offline OP
Rock Warrior
*****
OK, so I finally got a chance to do some troubleshooting on the Raider today. As you may recall, my Raider would run during the day, but not start in the evening when time to go home from work. It's sat in the garage for a couple of weeks now, and is repeatably not starting. Here's the results of my diagnosis today:

1) Checked for spark at plug wire and coil wire. Good spark.
2) Pulled the ECU out and took a look inside. No signs of corrosion, no bad smell. Capacitors look good. As an aside, it was interesting to note that this ECU had only 2 47uF caps rather than the 3 of various values listed in the capacitor replacement reference article on the tmo site.
3) Re-installed the ECU, and looked at the voltage on the fuel pump drive connector near the ECU. When cranking voltage is at 10+ volts. Popped the access cover and checked for voltage at the fuel pump connector. See 10+ volts when cranking.
4) Hook up battery + terminal to fuel pump drive connector. Have daughter #2 listen for fuel pump operation. No noise. Switch places, daughter #2 connects the battery, I listen for noise. No noise at all.

So, it looks like the fuel pump is dead. I went ahead and installed my new fuel filter, cap, rotor, and plug wires because I had them in hand, and had the time. Now the questions for anyone who has replaced the in-tank pump in a Gen I 3.0L.

1) Do I really need to drain the tank like it says in the FSM? Or can I just unbolt and lift the pump out of the tank carefully through the access hole in the back of the truck? Is this a "don't do that Eric!" kind of thing?
2) I will be going with aftermarket <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> because paying $500+ for a fuel pump sadly is not in my back pocket right now. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Anyone have any experiences good or bad with particular brands? Rockauto has an AC Delco for $80, plus another $10-15 for a strainer and another $10-15 for the tank seal. Good deal? Anything else I need to get to do this replacement?
3) Why are the pump/strainer combos so much more expensive than buying the pump and strainer separately? Is there some trick/tool needed to attach the strainer to the pump?
4) Any special priming needed when the pump is installed?
5) Why would the ECU not throw a code if the fuel pump is not operating? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Any other diagnosis recommended before ponying up the $$$ for a new pump?

Thanks!

Eric W.

Last edited by 89IsMine; 11/05/06 01:03 AM.

'89 Dodge Raider -- 3.0L V6, MT, SWB
Re: Fuel pump questions - round 2 [Re: 89IsMine] #762911 11/05/06 01:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,557
LandRaider Offline
Forum Moderator
*****
I was able to take the sending unit out of my 87 raider(no fuel pump though) while the tank was in the truck. It woudl be alot eaiser now that I have a 2 inch body lift !!


87 Raider 4D56td v5MT1
31's..Basically Stock
Re: Fuel pump questions - round 2 [Re: LandRaider] #762912 11/11/06 02:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 93
J
jetcitydude Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
10 volts seems like it would be pretty low voltage when normally it would be between 13 - 14 volts with the engine running. What is your battery voltage at the battery. Have you checked your battery connections. On my 91 Montero there is an access plate over the fuel pump that allows you to go access to the fuel tank/fuel pump and you just pull it up thru the access hole.


1991 Montero 3.0 V6 Auto 4X4,1986 Fiero 3.8
Re: Fuel pump questions - round 2 [Re: jetcitydude] #762913 11/11/06 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,876
Tag Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
Even if you dont know if you are going to do the job go outside at the soonest time you can and spray all the bolts that hold it in the tank with PB Blaster. Do it every day until you get to the job. If you do the job it will make it easier for you. If you have a mech do it he should thank you. Or keep you from needing a new tank.


89 2dr 3.0 AT, manual hubs. 33x12.5 MT
gen 2 coils,Cranked front tbars
Dons rocker protection, Front/Rear Bumpers. ARB rear locker, 2" BL, Beefed up skid plates/trailing arms. Gen II uca, 2 Bouncy seats www.youtube.com/TagGeorge
Re: Fuel pump questions - round 2 - saga continues [Re: Tag] #762914 11/11/06 09:37 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 927
8
89IsMine Offline OP
Rock Warrior
*****
Well, the fun just never ends... I ordered a Denso fuel pump and a tank gasket, and was ready to do the job today. After consulting with a trusted mechanic, I decided I did not need to drain the fuel tank, or drop the tank.

Getting the return-side line off was a simple matter of removing the hose clip, and patiently convincing the rubber hose off the connector. Then came the supply-side. According to the FSM (at least the way I read it) the line side is the stationary side, and the flare nut on the metal pipe to the pump is the rotating side. I sprayed the whole connection down with PB Blaster several times and let it sit, and then put my two wrenches on the nuts, and tried to turn the flare nut while keeping the hose-side stationary. Uh, no. Not budging. Then I noticed fuel dribbling down where the pipe went through the plate that mounts to the fuel tank. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> Closer inspection revealed that the tube had a hairline crack about 1/8" above the mounting plate. OK, this just got exponentially more aggravating... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> A little more muscle and the connection broke free -- well, the supposedly-stationary side did. Since there was no way I would re-use that supply pipe, I just broke it off and unscrewed it from the line.

Examining the flare nut makes me wonder if someone brazed it on trying to deal with a leak or I just misunderstood the FSM, because that sucker looks like one solid connection:

[Linked Image]

So now I have one of these:

[Linked Image]

on order from msrecycling, and I'll continue with the saga next week after it gets here. At least I was able to get the pump out! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and regarding the 10+ volts... I did jumper the battery (measured @ 12+ volts) directly to the fuel pump via the test connector per the FSM, and there was no noise, so the fuel pump is definitely bad.

Last edited by 89IsMine; 11/11/06 09:43 PM.







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