That's right - 1:14" should stabilize any Spitzers up to 250-275gr. A 310 Woodleigh (round-nose) would probably require 1:12". Remington built their 35 Whelen CDLs with a 1:16", which some say isn't enough twist for 250gr. Some customs have even used 1:10", but that's excessive, according to most folks I've spoken with.

From what I see, too much twist can be as bad for accuracy as not enough.... doesn't let the bullet nose over at the right time - sorta like a good football toss. Also, the heavier bullets are more likely to be out of dynamic balance and need more spin to fly straight.

Anyway, the barrel reborer would cut whatever I ask, but before I told him I wanted 1:14", I asked for his recommendation for 200-250gr Spitzer rounds and he claims to have good results with 1:14". Since he agreed with my SWAG of what I "thought" I wanted and let me think I was deciding, I let him think I was following his advice and so, we came to an agreement. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Frank

Maybe I should have taken this rifle to a good gunsmith (if there's such a thing).... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

After my barrel was rebored and in transit to me, I called the reborer to see what he found. He said he didn't look in the barrel with a borescope before he began his work, but by shining a light into it, it looked like a beautifully button-rifled barrel in terrific condition..... well, no joke.... I think I could tell that much.

The next thing he said was that in removing the barrel from the receiver in preparation for reboring, he found the barrel slightly loose..... but said he managed to turn it around a half-thread - and that he found the headspace a little on the loose side. Heck, if I'd have known that, I might have asked him to correct the headspace by cutting the barrel shoulder a little and re-reaming the chamber to stay with the .30-06 in hopes that would cure the accuracy issue. If you look at the last target pictured, 4 of 5 shots are in a dead straight ~45? line and just might have been the result of a loose barrel - something I would never have guessed.

But - I guess if you go to a surgeon, he's gonna cut - go to an internist, he'll give you a pill. I probably would have also told him to bore it anyway, since I'm sort of set on Whelen.

Anyway, when the barrel arrived, I was expecting the top markings toward the end of the barrel to now be on the bottom and I would want to send it back to get the shoulder cut and headspace corrected, but I was surprised to see the markings seemingly where they should be - on top of the barrel. Further examination showed he only turned the barrel a tiny amount - hardly enough to change much, but maybe a small change makes a difference.

I bead-blasted all of the metal parts, stoned the barrel a little to knock down the milling marks (then re-blasted) and parkerized everything with manganese phosphate. Here's the barrel in the white - you can see how far he was able to turn the barrel:



Here's my super-duper parkerizing tank, made from a driveshaft and fired by 2 propane torches:



In work:



And the post-treatment water-dispersing oil tank:



I guess it's a .35 Whelen - that's what the barrel says:



.30-06 on the right, .35 Whelen on the left - wouldn't want to get tagged with either one:



Changed to Leupold rings and she's back together - with different shades of dark grey - apparently, the phosphate depth of color is somewhat dependant on metallurgy, but I'm satisfied with it for a hunting rifle:





Now to find out how it shoots..... the reborer said he thought it would be fine and the headspace looseness is ok - but if not, he offered to properly fit the barrel and correct the headspace for nothing - just wish he'd have given me the opportunity to pay him for doing that before he sent it back to me.

Frank

This rifle doesn't sound like any other I've ever shot. It doesn't go "POW"...... it goes "BOOOOM". Recoil is not sharp, but is a heavy push - more like a 12ga shotgun. It must have to do with the burn rate of the powder used for this caliber and parent case.

After zeroing the scope with cheapo 200gr Remington CoreLokt, it was apparent that the new barrel didn't like them - probably partly due to the barrel needing some break-in shooting, and partly that the load isn't what the barrel likes. I'll try them again after 100 or so rounds have gone down the tube.

I switched to 250gr Core-Lokt and found a friend. The first target was with no scope adjustment to allow for the heavier bullet, so the rounds were a bit low, but they sure grouped well for a new barrel - a 5th round's in the group, but I don't know where:



Changed the scope a little to bring up point-of-impact and then shot this group - the highest was first scope-settling shot:



I think I'm going to like it a lot as a hunting rifle. Accuracy should improve with more shooting to smooth the barrel - no lapping has been done.... and it should have more accuracy with better ammunition. I would expect with time it'll be a dependable sub-1" shooter at 100 yards.

It's not a good bench rifle, though - unless I install a decelerator or a recoil pad. For hunting, I don't think I'll feel a thing over a few shots, but after about 30 rounds it gets painful on the bench. It's a hoss. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

Frank

Nice rifle Frank. Definitely a unique hunting rifle, that you'll want to keep in the family for generations.

Over here you can only hunt on base with a Shotgun so I got me a 12 gauge Mossberg Slugster with the riffled slug barrel. My shoulder is still sore a week later after taking it to the range to get the scope zero'd. I was able to get a 3" group at 100 yards with cheap slugs. Should be good enough with the heavy brush here I don't see me needing to take a shot beyond that. Just getting my feet wet this year so I'll be lucky if I get one(deer) before the end of the season.

A 3" group with a shotgun/slugs at 100 yards? Man, the Marines can shoot! Wow.

John B.

Justice, when I was growing up in the SC low country, rifles weren't allowed for hunting deer, but there were a bunch of deer taken with slugs and buckshot. Today's sabot slug rounds in rifled barrels make a shotgun almost ideal for low country deer. Brush hunting can be a real challenge, but a shotgun is the right choice.

I'm going to try to make a NC trip before long. A friend says he has some good hunting on a power line clearing with a lot of deer crossing in open space that should be interesting. From reasonable cover, the crossing point is 259 yards..... not exactly the .35's limit, but certainly a challenging shot. I need to find a range I can zero at 200 yards, so I don't have to say "should be" more than once to figure the aim point.

Frank

I was really nervous to see this to to the metal butcher, but it looks like it has turned out for the best.

It seems to me that one could make a living by going to gun smithing school, and making an investment in some machine tools.
It'd be a good business to "break even" at. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think it's turned out for the best, too, but if I had figured it all out earlier, I would have saved at least a little money. Heck, I probably would be money ahead if I had thrown the rifle in the trash and bought a good used .35 Whelen - but it wouldn't be the same, and I wouldn't have had the experience of learning new things - and I guess there's a price for education.

As for gunsmithing, I think there's always room for good craftsmen that give a damn, treat people fairly and operate in a business-like manner. Gunsmithing is probably a good career for someone who can make the investment needed in time and in tools - at least a good hobby that might generate enoough money to pay itself. Better yet, if an interested fellow could find an older smith, it's possible he could learn the trade from him while having a buyout arrangement and maybe wind up with a decent business. I think you're right - if you wanted to buy some machinery and learn some talents, you could probably find enough work to pay for the tools as a hobby until you learned enough and had done enough good work that word-of-mouth brought you enough customers to make money.

Reboring/rerifling is pretty specialized as most of the equipment is probably left over from WWII. I don't know how much that equipment costs, but a lot of things can be done with much simpler tools - although all of the gunsmithing jigs, reamers, etc seem to be quite expensive. You can do some things with non-specialized tools as I have done with this rifle, but the results will likely not turn out very well when compared to typical gunsmith customer expectations.

Many of the gunsmithing operations have become specialized - like reboring, parkerizing, bluing. checkering and stock work - so for a lot of it, the gunsmith is just a middleman who charges you for sending the work to someone who will do a good job.

I did a lot of research before I sent my barrel off to be bored and in the end, chose the least expensive business with good recommendations. I'm not disappointed and think the rifle will shoot even better after a few hundred rounds.

A good gunsmith is probably a rare person these days. The problem is probably that the cost of building or repairing average guns with quality work is more than the cost of buying a new replacement.

But - a new replacement wouldn't have the same nostalgia. Every time I pick up that rifle, I'm amazed by it and its history. The 1903 Springfield was the rifle used by the Marines in the Battle of Belleau Wood, when they earned their marksmanship reputation, cut the advancing German army to pieces and caused the Germans to give them the name still used today.... "Devil Dogs". The 1903 Springfield is also the rifle chosen by Col. Townsend Whelen - arguably the greatest rifleman who ever lived - to develop the formerly wildcat .358 round that is so efficient. In choosing the 1903 Springfield as the platform, he (and others) developed a cult rifle that is known today as the "right" .35 Whelen. Owning and shooting one feels like holding a piece of tradition and history.

Frank

Go for it Curtis. Most of the smittys I know are gettin' pretty gray-haired.

Having grown up in Central Idaho, you can imagine my surprise when first stationed in Michigan that people hunted deer with a shotgun. I was like, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />