Okay, okay. About that Iron Chest thing.

I went over to the Brown residence tonight (thanks again, guys) for supper and we watched some of their trail videos afterwards. Mike had quite a bit of footage of Iron Chest when he rode with Jeff on this. All I have to say now is, I don't think you'll be seeing me on any 9-rated trails anytime soon! I knew when Jeff said he had a blast on it above, that it requires a bit of translation for the majority of us as to what that actually means! While I thought the linked pictures above looked real good, and maybe perfect, the video did shed a bit more light on it.

What would it take for me to do it?

No question, 285's minimum. That extra inch of clearance would go a long way on this trail from what I currently have. (They are exactly 2" taller.)

I already said I'd have sliders by then, so the rocker panel area doesn't look to be too big of a concern there with them. Definitely a pre-requisite.

An "azrain skid plate" at the minimum would be required and would be more than an adequate testing ground for one (or 2!). The undercarriage seems to be the most vulnerable on this trail. I guess it usually is, but you get what I'm trying to say. I just don't know if I could listen to all the hard bumps and scrapes underneath in surround sound.

Probably another year's worth of experience, and to have been on a few 8's.

And lastly, but not least, a confident spotter who could guide and assure me that I'd walk (drive) away with "no big deal" type of damage. There are some real good size boulder fields there which is noticeable on a 2-D video. I can only imagine the real thing is a big wake up call. While it didn't appear as though it should have been rated a 9, again, it might make a totally different face when you see it live.

I don't know about this one. At this time, I'm saying "no to 9's" and will play it the right way--safe. <img border="0" alt="[Chicken]" title="" src="graemlins/chicken.gif" />

Hello Everyone,

I'm quite partial to Matt's idea of having the next CO4RJ in the Montezuma area. However, Buena Vista has alot more lodging, shops and services (not to mention some of the best developed hotsprings in Colorado: Cottonwood and Mt. Princeton). I'm "in" for whatever destination is agreed upon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'd also love to attend a Moab run, when i was travelling back to CA after CO4RJ, i went over La Sal Pass (in the La Sal Mtns east of Moab) this road would be good for the group, due to the variety of terrain and scenery.

Early August would work well for CO4RJ, for me at least.
The Moab run, the best month is October or so.

Keep the suggestions coming!

Be Well,
Lee

BTW, I have some time scheduled in one week from now to work out many more details for CO4RJ so we have some finilized info to work with.

Some people rate Iron Chest a 9. Others say it's an 8. I found it easier than Chinaman's Gulch, which some people also rate as a 9 and others say an 8.

I think minimum requirements for Iron Chest would be at least a rear locker, rock sliders, 2" or more lift, at least 265/75R16 tires. Aftermarket skidplates would be nice, but not a necessity. Aftermarket front bumper would also be nice, but not a necessity (for strength and clearance).

The people who I saw have problems didn't have a locker or had stock gearing with a manual trans with gearing that was way too high for large tires. It totally depends on the vehicle and the driver on what's acceptable gearing. Iron Chest doesn't have any major obstacles, just lots and lots of rocks. That's why I think Holy Cross and Chinaman's Gulch are probably more difficult.

I think Mike (AuroraSandman) has done both Holy Cross and Chinaman's Gulch.

I don't think I had any damage or problems from Iron Chest. But I added a dent to my stock rear bumper on Chinaman's and sheared off the old-style SAW schraeder valve there. I've had to winch on French's Creek on Holy Cross. There's some major obstacles on Holy Cross.

All of those trails are possible for the "hardcore" group at CO4RJ.

You can see more write-ups and pics of it and other trails at a few web sites:
http://www.4x4trails.net/db_view_trail.asp?trailNum=65
http://www.trailseeker.com/4x4/coloradozu/IV/IronChest-KE/index.htm
http://www.trailseeker.com/4x4/coloradozu/2001/index.htm

Oops - I never answered about the rock in the leaf spring. It wasn't intentional - there were just so many rocks rolling around as you drive over them that one somehow rolled above the leaf while he had that wheel extended. Took some creativity to get it out.

Red Cone (maybe - wouldn't want any newbies on it), Radical Hill, Hancock/Tomichi, Antero, Tin Cup, and others closer to Leadville and Keystone could be possible for the stock or minimally mod'ed group (depending on where the base camp is decided to be).

Wheeler Lake is sort of half-way between the capabilities of the mod'ed group and stock group, but it can add pinstriping to paint.

<small>[ February 16, 2003, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Jeff the marmot ]</small>

Thank's Jeff.

I ran Chinaman's today with no problems. However I did skip that short rock garden on the right.

<img src="http://pics.montypics.com/jx94148/2003-02-17/mike_garden.jpg" alt=" - " />
Does your assessment of Chinaman's include that optional section? (The guy pictured took the hardest line possible for those unfamiliar with the trail. The normal line is 1/2 as big.)

I want to add Iron Chest to my Resume' but it can wait. Like I said i'd be happy to lead some folks on something else while the big dogs play on the Chest.

No, I've never actually done that optional small rock garden on the right of the trail, although there's usually a few in the group that try it.

Sandman and I took that obstacle on Chainman's and it was ugly. We both made it, but we hammered and drug our undercarriage and diffs way too much for comfort. Matt was there also, but decided not to do it. It was the single most difficult obstacle I have ever taken. I would give another go, now that I have 285's and sliders. Matt was unsuccessful in taking pictures of me with my camera. <img border="0" alt="[Nerd]" title="" src="graemlins/nerd.gif" /> But I have a picture of Sandman.
<img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~scttntna/_uimages/ChinamansGulch06.jpg" alt=" - " />

I would vote for the Buena Vista area being the overall best place for this event. Day trip opportunities are everywhere.

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: JadeRunner ]</small>

Looks like a ballsy move with stock bumpers and no sliders. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Where is this Buena Vista place?

If I get the gig in Denver, I would like to pre-run all the trails and formulate an opinion later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do you think there are enough potential rigs to warrant a "hardcore" type run and a stocker type? Last year it was good to be in the whole group as far as being with everyone, but some times it was tough to take time to enjoy stuff because we had to keep moving so much.

<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~dekilgore/co.jpg" alt=" - " />

For the much sweeter version of this image with more text overlays that I've added, click here (482 KB)!

(It's worth the download!)

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Darren ]</small>

WOW! That is wonderfully close to any of the places I might be and Leadville is a place that I have read quite a bit about, high altitude and such.

What do you think for drive time
-around 1 hr from Denver or the Springs
-probably 3 hours from Raton, NM
-around 18 hrs from Baraboo

Sure hope I work in Denver! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Since I can't remember the traveling time, these are according to MapQuest:

Denver to Buena Vista: 2.75 hrs
CO Spgs to Buena Vista: 2.25 hrs
Raton to Buena Vista: 4.5 hrs
Baraboo to Buena Vista: 19.5 hrs

Leadville is 30 miles north and is along the headwaters of the Arkansas River, which is extremely popular with the rafters. Both towns are okay, but not anywhere near as scenic as where we were last year. Both are located in the wide Arkasas River Valley, so they don't have the intimate setting like Ouray does, but most of the trails would make up for that.