Awesome pic, Darren!

Buena Vista is about 2 hours from either Denver or Colo. Spgs. Potentially a lot longer if there's traffic. There's many miles where there's no passing.

I really like having the group do a run with everyone together on the run. It's a lot of fun. And we got some absolutely awesome pics from last year. But there'll be a limit to the size sooner or later. That's actually rare to have everyone on one trail at the other gatherings that I've happened to attend. Too many vehicles and it becomes impractical. I think we were pushing the limits in CO4RJ 2002 to have everyone do the same trails (particularly Poughkeepsie Gulch). The trails weren't terribly difficult, but the group size was starting to push it.

It seemed to me last August that there was a surprisingly growing number of really well modified vehicles. And within another year from that date, we would easily have a highly capable group that could confidently do some dang tough trails. But there's always still the stockers that want to just meet others and enjoy some simple, fun off-roading. So in my mind, 2 groups this year has become a certainty. The question is whether we can figure out a run with everyone together on one run.

Matt - thanks for offering to lead a trail one day. I'll most likely take you up on that offer. Sam and I have previously talked about each of us sharing the responsibility of leading some trails. So we'll be fine on trail leaders between all of us.
Jeff

Maybe I didn't see it, but has an actual date been set? I really would like to attend, not only to see a part of CO that I haven't been to (or at least haven't seen for a long time) but also to see what my truck can do in altitude.

I just need a good idea to prepare for time off as I basically run the office and need to prep my <img border="0" alt="[Baby]" title="" src="graemlins/baby.gif" /> 's that I will be gone...
Sounds like great fun!

Mike

There hasn't been a date set yet, Mike

Jeff, you're right, that is an awesome pic! Unfortunately, I cannot take credit for that one! This is undoubtedly the best satellite image of the state. I have spent countless hours looking at the largest version of this. <img border="0" alt="[Nerd]" title="" src="graemlins/nerd.gif" /> It is really quite facinating. Other images of Colorado, other states and the world can be found here.

If you want the super duper, high res version of the image above with more towns and features that I marked, click here (482 KB).

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Darren ]</small>

It has been a couple of months, thought I would bump this. I know it is a long way off yet, but I also think there is a lot of planning that goes in to this.

I am going to be closer than I thought with work, but I will be done around August 1. If it runs early, then I would just stay out there. If it is later, then I may have to come solo because there is a family trip.

Any new ideas?

I ought to be better equipped, two crews makes good sense. Just means we have to camp together so I can meet all you yahoos!

Does this location make it impossible for some Arizonans? It was good to have such a geographically diverse group last year.

I agree, let's get some stuff finalized. I apologize that I've had a tough time in general over the last few months due to some business travel and occasionally working the night shift (7pm to 7am).

A month ago I thoroughly searched for conflicting dates of other gatherings, etc. For one, the Jeep All-4-Fun week is in Leadville Aug 2-9, which involves 300-350 Jeeps. And just a week ago, the dates for one other gathering in the area was set to be Aug 7-9, so I'm trying to avoid crowded trails.

Here's what I have right now. I've decided to "keep it simple" this year and stick with what I know. So...

Home base: Buena Vista. Possibly Brown's Campground, which is where we stayed 2 years ago, but that'll be decided very shortly.

Dates: either July 23-25 or August 13-15. There's a few large gatherings the 2 weekends between those. Let me know your thoughts. I was leaning toward Aug 13-15.

Trails: 2 groups for each of the 3 days (easy/moderate and difficult). These are very tentative and can be finalized later, but so far I have
Easier trails: Hancock/Tomichi, Antero & Baldwin Lakes, Hagerman Pass & something like Princeton. A stock Toyota could go on these.
Harder trails: Holy Cross, Chinaman's Gulch, maybe Iron Chest. Rear locker required. Other minimum suggestions will vary depending on the trail. These might include requirements such as 2"+ of lift, larger tires, rock sliders.
Other trail possibilities: Wheeler Lake sort of falls between easy and hard - I'm not sure how to fit it in.

SportRunner, Matt(jx94148), and myself will likely trade off leading trails each day.

I know of a couple possible companies to donate some simple products for free stuff.

Let me know your thoughts. I realize that the dates and campground need to be set in concrete very soon.

<small>[ April 11, 2003, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: Jeff the marmot ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by Jeff the marmot:
<strong>Harder trails: Holy Cross, Chinaman's Gulch, maybe Iron Chest. Rear locker required.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">I've done Holy Cross and Chinaman's with just the Active TRAC computer, so I would consider that an adequate substitution for a locker.

My humble opinion: I rode along as a passenger with Jeff the Marmot on Iron Chest last summer. Based on that experience, I have no desire to drive my vehicle on that trail. For those of you who haven't been to Iron Chest, it's big boulders almost the entire trail, and even Jeff's rig, with its good clearance, took an almost constant beating underneath. Jeff has armor under his truck like few of us have. My impression is that Chinaman's is much easier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans"><strong>Other minimum suggestions will vary depending on the trail. These might include requirements such as 2"+ of lift, larger tires, rock sliders.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">I agree with this. I've done these trails safely without sliders, so it can be done, but I've also seen people dent their running boards on them (like JadeRunner on Chinaman's).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans"><strong>Other trail possibilities: Wheeler Lake sort of falls between easy and hard - I'm not sure how to fit it in.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">I would say hard. Clearance and a locker (or computer) are farily important if you want to make it to the end of the trail. Sliders are also important if you don't want to risk dents.

I would be game for having an alternate group go to Wheeler on the day of the Iron Chest run. (I'd even be willing to lead it if you need a volunteer.)

I think Buena Vista is a great location for this. It's close to a number of trails, plus it's close enough to Denver and Co. Springs that residents could join us for day trips if they desired.

<small>[ April 11, 2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Aurora Sandman ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by Aurora Sandman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by Jeff the marmot:
<strong>Harder trails: Holy Cross, Chinaman's Gulch, maybe Iron Chest. Rear locker required.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">I've done Holy Cross and Chinaman's with just the Active TRAC computer, so I would consider that an adequate substitution for a locker.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Oh yeah. Thanks for pointing that out.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by Aurora Sandman:
<strong>My humble opinion: I rode along as a passenger with Jeff the Marmot on Iron Chest last summer. Based on that experience, I have no desire to drive my vehicle on that trail. For those of you who haven't been to Iron Chest, it's big boulders almost the entire trail, and even Jeff's rig, with its good clearance, took an almost constant beating underneath. Jeff has armor under his truck like few of us have. My impression is that Chinaman's is much easier.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">I didn't think Iron Chest was that bad or that difficult. So it's good to hear your input. If no one wants to do Iron Chest, then maybe we'll do Wheeler instead.

Two years ago we did get a few totally stock 4Runners about 90% through the Wheeler Lake trail (to just before bowling ball hill), but I helped spot in a few places.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by Jeff the marmot:
<strong>I didn't think Iron Chest was that bad or that difficult. So it's good to hear your input.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Of course, being in the passenger's seat for a change might have given me a different perspective. I wasn't so much concerned about Iron Chest's difficulty (I haven't much doubt I could make it). I just don't want to take such a great risk of bending a frame cross member or my lower control arm. And it didn't strike me as one of the more enjoyable trails as far as scenery or variety of obstacles. Additionally, the trail is a real pain in regard to finding places to pull over for passing (which you need to do since it isn't a loop).

Wheeler Lake, on the other hand, has a variety of obstacles, and the canyon you go up is quite spectacular. Just my $.02.

P.S. You are correct that stock 4Runners can make it up most of Wheeler. I did when I first got my 4Runner -- just rode up with someone else for the last stretch.

<small>[ April 11, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Aurora Sandman ]</small>

Not sure if this makes a difference, but...

I just found out that the last day I will be officially working is the 19th of July. My bro is coming to town for a couple of days, so it would be awesome if the Jambo ran July 23-25 as far as I am concerned. Then he could run the jambo and drive back to Wisconsin with me. I can still swing it later, but thought that a vote this way might make a difference.

I am excited to be thinking about this again, perhaps time for an official thread by one of the official organizers??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by Big_Flygt:
<strong>I am excited to be thinking about this again, perhaps time for an official thread by one of the official organizers??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">I want to nail down the date first (and very soon). So far I've heard 2 votes for mid-Aug and 1 vote for late July. If you have any preference, speak up now.