I guess I'm just grasping at straws and thinking out loud here JB, I'm at a bit of a loss and not understanding how I can have a junk engine, but still turn it over by hand. I guess I'm just being lazy (and cheap) not wanting to tear into this thing again right away.

In regards to the starter, I had it tested at O'Reilly and it tested good. I'm there several times a week and they are starting to know me by name, and SEEM fairly knowledgeable. Battery is new along with a new positive battery connector, and a new negative to fender battery cable. I cleaned all ground connections that I had access to excluding the rear bolt at the AC pump/block ground. Time to get the volt meter out I guess and check continuity.

can you jumper the starter directly to bypass any possibility of wiring difficulties? (sorry I have literally no experience with the 2nd gen monteros other than the one in my front yard)

Yeah. That's certainly do-able. The only wires I have not traced other than the main battery to starter cable is the rest of the ground path from the AC pump bolt, and what looks like a 14AWG wire that connects to the solenoid on the starter. I'll do some poking around the wiring diagrams in the FSM tonight and see if there might be a relay in that path, and see what it will take to test that circuit. Need to put my wiring hat on.

Ha. Just noticed I went over 100 posts and am a "wheeler" now. Now THAT'S irony. A "wheeler" with no wheels! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

It sounds like you've covered all your bases as far as electrical connections go, but try checking the voltage at the positive cable at the starter to make sure you're getting full battery voltage there.

Also, I don't recall if you've said that you've done this yet, but have you tried cranking it while a running vehicle is connected via jumper cables? That would ensure that you're providing full cranking voltage the entire time you're cranking it.

On the subject of bellhousing not being square, maybe the PO removed some of the bellhousing bolts for some reason and the starter is binding on the flexplate. Have you looked at the transmission to engine connection to make sure there's no gap and that all the bolts are there?

I'll check voltage at the starter tomorrow. Started looking through the wiring diagrams and there is no starter relay on an AT Montero. It is however in the diagram for a manual tranny. Looks like the circuit goes through the ignition switch, to the park/neutral switch and then to the solenoid and that's the end of the circuit. Has a couple of branch offs from there but they do not affect the starting circuit itself.

I've had it in my head to ditch the aftermarket alarm on this thing, since at first glance it looked like a hack job. That is a MAJOR understatement after looking further into it. I have never seen such a poorly installed alarm. EVER. And I've seen a lot of them. Wire insulation was basically stripped from the ignition switch wiring and the alarm wires stuck in between the bare wire, and then taped. With a few relays and fuses and taps to add to the mess. Scrapped the whole deal and repaired the ignition switch harness. Still wont' start, but I can hear the starter winding down after I stop cranking, which I don't recall hearing before. So now at least I can rule out the alarm, and have a clean circuit to start working with.

Just checked the starter wire voltage. Virtually no drop from battery to starter. 12.31V at the battery. 12.30v at the starter wire. Will throw the battery on a trickle charge since I tried cranking for a bit to see if it would fire. Felt like it barely wanted to for a second there, but no luck. Still cranks for a bit, then stops, and starts cranking again, and stops again. I smell fuel so I'm going to start troubleshooting to see if I have spark.

Edit:

Did some reading on spark issues, more specifically the crank position sensor. I'm not seeing the tach move when cranking the engine over, but I don't see of any way to test the sensor for correct operation yet. Still reading. Anyone know a way to test the CPS?

Sorry on the troubles ... Theres got to be one of the AZ crew guys in the valley that has a good starter that he "know" is good ....Testing a starter at a parts store thats not "under load" is BS ....If you where up the hill I would give you one of my starters ....

Never herd of "San Tan Valley AZ"...?

David

Hazardous Toys inc

San Tan Valley is a recently incorporated town. Where I live used to be Queen Creek before that. Basically 10+ miles due south of Apache Junction. PA_JERO and I live in the same subdivision oddly enough. Been wanting to get up the hill soon though. Haven't been in your area in a couple of years.

I'm not sure if I'm even getting spark at this point, but I haven't had much time to look into it. My scanned copy of the FSM is a pain to search through, but it's better than nothing. I've read there is a "no spark" testing procedure, but have yet to find it. Need to get back to basics and make sure I'm getting all of the required elements here.

Well, I've verified no spark, but I have voltage at the #2 cylinder coil so that's a plus. Can also hear the fuel pump cycling, and the injectors cycling as well. Going to swap out the ignition switch since the wiring was so hacked from the alarm install for peace of mind. Then start troubleshooting the no spark condition. Need to check these items: Ignition switch, ignition control module, crank sensor.

PA_JERO stopped by tonight to take a look and we spent time drinking beer and pointing at the engine a lot and basically BSing. He also brought by a spare starter he had in case I need it to test with. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> Didn't really figure anything out, but got to hear some good Montero and AZ crew stories. You know who you are.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Just wait till you go on the annual camping trip <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />