A raging spirited - not really nicely spirited debate over winch type and practical application on a Toyota forum. On the hydraulic side they also get into adding auxilary pumps + coolers + larger tanks for fluid with dipsticks + filters to support the hydraulic systems
Completely different applications. American 4wheeling is generally 1 day.....on "expedition" style wheeling in America, it's a few days and you are generally not really that far from services. The Outback is far different.
In American trail running, you are far more likely to roll the vehicle and have to self recover without the engine running than in the Outback. The electric is clearly superior for this type of use. Very few people I wheel with actually have dual or even deep cycle batteries.
It all comes down to end use of the vehicle....for an American trail rig, an electric winch is a better bet, for an expedition type rig, hydro may be the way to go....I can't say....I'm not interested in expedition wheeling.
Sean
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07-29-2009, 09:36 PM #14 (permalink)
nwindy
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Member Number: 26497
Posts: 37 Re: Hydraulic Winch
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correct me if i'm wrong here, because i've never owned a winch nor used one before, all my info is based on the on going process of buying one.
i came cross a hydraulic 10000lb winch for $200 on craigslist few months ago and didn't buy it because what the seller talked me out of it.
1.) if your engine isn't running, winch doesn't work
2.) if your vehicle rolled, on the side or up side down, fuel pump can't pick up fuel, engine can't run, winch doesn't work.
above two scenarios, not a problem with electric winch as long as the battery works. i have Diehard Platinum, which is a re-labeled Odyssey glass mat battery, it works no matter which way it's placed even up side down.
3.) if power steering fails, the whole vehicle is paralyzed. if a battery dies, just jump start it you are on your way, most of the cars can run without a battery once it started.
4.) replacing steering pump is complicated on the trail specially with the extra hydraulic lines from the winch. i did replaced alternator during trail run, half an hour with couple wrenches and a propane torch(frozen bolt).
5.) toyota power steering pumps are not on the power side and the low fluid capacity(1qt) makes the whole system prone to overheat. aftermarket ps upgrade are out there and proven reliable but bloody expensive, ~$400 and up for DIY kit. so, what's the point.
i think the hydraulic winch is for the full size trucks.
07-29-2009, 09:43 PM #15 (permalink)
Sean K.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Member Number: 9441
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 5,000 Re: Hydraulic Winch
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Quote:
nwindy previously said:
correct me if i'm wrong here, because i've never owned a winch nor used one before, all my info is based on the on going process of buying one.
i came cross a hydraulic 10000lb winch for $200 on craigslist few months ago and didn't buy it because what the seller talked me out of it.
1.) if your engine isn't running, winch doesn't work
2.) if your vehicle rolled, on the side or up side down, fuel pump can't pick up fuel, engine can't run, winch doesn't work.
above two scenarios, not a problem with electric winch as long as the battery works. i have Diehard Platinum, which is a re-labeled Odyssey glass mat battery, it works no matter which way it's placed even up side down.
3.) if power steering fails, the whole vehicle is paralyzed. if a battery dies, just jump start it you are on your way, most of the cars can run without a battery once it started.
4.) replacing steering pump is complicated on the trail specially with the extra hydraulic lines from the winch. i did replaced alternator during trail run, half an hour with couple wrenches and a propane torch(frozen bolt).
5.) toyota power steering pumps are not on the power side and the low fluid capacity(1qt) makes the whole system prone to overheat. aftermarket ps upgrade are out there and proven reliable but bloody expensive, ~$400 and up for DIY kit. so, what's the point.
i think the hydraulic winch is for the full size trucks.
You are correct on points 1-4. I don't know about 5, but I do know Toyota has low capacity in terms of fluid and flow compared to standard GM saginaw type boxes/pumps.
It's only marginally better on fullsize 1 ton type trucks. As I said and the test posted above also shows, if you want the best performance and to avoid the pitfalls of your #1-5....you need a larger flow system with an appropriate cooler at a minimum thereby substantially increasing cost. An accumulator tank with a separate high GPM pump would be even better.
Sean
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