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Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: fasteddy] #1037683 08/18/12 09:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 117
mrray Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote
We need to test the coil. Ignition on, coil plug disconnected. connect the coil connection that goes to the black/white wire to 12v from the battery using a jumper wire. Using a second jumper wire, make and break the connection from the other coil terminal (the one connected to the white/blue wire) to ground while holding the cap end of the coil wire with a paper clip in it 1/4" from a good ground and observe for spark.


Well, my 1 y/o would only allow me to do one test. I checked the coil. If I did the test right then the coil is bad. But I'm not sure I did it right:

CONNECTION1: I connected a lead from battery positive to the male blade connector on the coil that corresponds to the female connector to the black/white wire on the coil wire. So, connection 1: coil to 12v+.

CONNECTION2: I connected a second lead from the other male coil connector on the coil to a chassis ground point.

CONNECTION3: I connected a third lead to the FEMALE connector on the coil wire that corresponds with the blue/white wire. On the other end of the lead was an alligator clip. I suspended the clip ~1/4" above a ground point.

Turned ignition to "ON", made and broke CONNECTION2 at the ground point while observing the alligator clip for spark.

I observed spark at the ground point in CONNECTION2 between making and breaking, but nothing at CONNECTION3. I further checked by leaving CONNECTION2 intact and tapping the alligator clip on the chassis. No spark.

Did I do that right?


1991 Montero LS (LWB) 3.0L V6 Stock 205K Miles
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: mrray] #1037684 08/18/12 09:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Almost. The blue/white wire is wrong. The "coil wire" is the wire from the coil to the distributor. Disconnect the wire from the dizzy and check spark at that end.

The coil only has two ordinary wire terminals in an oval housing on the black plastic coil body. The + terminal is on the long axis of the oval, and the negative is at right angles to the +. Connect the + to battery 12v+, make and break a ground connection to the - with a jumper wire, observing spark at the dizzy end of the coil wire held close to a ground. Use an ohm meter to check the coil as well. + to - should be less than an ohm. Coil-dizzy wire to + should be 10-14k ohms.

Last edited by fasteddy; 08/18/12 10:02 PM.

Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: fasteddy] #1037685 08/20/12 05:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 117
mrray Offline OP
Wheeler
Ok, calling it a night. I checked for continuity at every place I could stick a probe in the ignition wiring. Nothing kooky found.

I was able to confirm the coil is good. I was about to give up and call it dead when I shocked myself with the coil end test lead. That may be the only time I've ever been thrilled to be electrocuted. Tried some more after cleaning the chassis ground and getting a little closer and got some spark. I measured 1.1ohms across + and - of coil primary. About 12k ohms from coil+ to dizzy side.

Transistor looks good too. I measured open b/w 2 and 3 with 1 disconnected and 821 ohms with 1 connected. Is that about right?

Tomorrow I'll continue on with checking CPS and distributor and more wire tracing.

SOMETHING'S gotta be broken!!!


1991 Montero LS (LWB) 3.0L V6 Stock 205K Miles
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: mrray] #1037686 08/20/12 04:10 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,628
hazy_daze Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
I've got the old dizzy from my truck that was good when I pulled it out, if ya want to test with it. Let me know...


Fasteddy's advice is occasionally sound...
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: hazy_daze] #1037687 08/20/12 05:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 117
mrray Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote
I've got the old dizzy from my truck that was good when I pulled it out, if ya want to test with it. Let me know...


hazy_daze,

Thanks very much for the offer. I actually have a spare here. I pulled the current one and found the contacts to be heavily corroded, but cleaning back to like-new shape made no difference. Thought I had it. Mystery continues...


1991 Montero LS (LWB) 3.0L V6 Stock 205K Miles
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: hazy_daze] #1037688 08/20/12 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Quote
Transistor looks good too. I measured open b/w 2 and 3 with 1 disconnected and 821 ohms with 1 connected. Is that about right?



821 ohms sounds like too much conductivity to me. You have to completely break the ground path to get the coil mag field to collapse. I'd suspect the power transistor as bad.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: fasteddy] #1037689 08/20/12 06:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 117
mrray Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote
Quote
Transistor looks good too. I measured open b/w 2 and 3 with 1 disconnected and 821 ohms with 1 connected. Is that about right?



821 ohms sounds like too much conductivity to me. You have to completely break the ground path to get the coil mag field to collapse. I'd suspect the power transistor as bad.


fasteddy, maybe my wording wasn't the most clear (late at night, several beers). What I was saying was with nothing connected to pin1 there was no conductivity between 2 and 3, and with pin 1 connected I got 821 ohms between 2 and 3. I interpreted that as following the functional design: open circuit (no conductivity) with pin 1 disconnected, and closed circuit (conductivity) with pin 1 connected.

-ray


1991 Montero LS (LWB) 3.0L V6 Stock 205K Miles
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: mrray] #1037690 08/20/12 08:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 117
mrray Offline OP
Wheeler
Called the dealer to see what a new CPS costs. They said that my Montero does not have one. WTF?

It sure does look like there is a sensor right below the distributor.

If spark is not making it from the coil to the distributor, is the CPS even in play here?

I hear gurgling inside the engine after cranking. I guess that's what a flooded engine sounds like? Is this going to hurt anything?

Taking a break for now. Tonight I'll tackle the tests outlined here:

CPS Testing


1991 Montero LS (LWB) 3.0L V6 Stock 205K Miles
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: mrray] #1037691 08/20/12 11:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 117
mrray Offline OP
Wheeler
ECU is talkin' to me now:

Code#14 -- Harness and Connector (what does that mean???) / Throttle Position Sensor / Idle Position Switch

Doesn't seem like any of those would cause a no-start.


1991 Montero LS (LWB) 3.0L V6 Stock 205K Miles
Re: Stranded...1st Gen LWB V6 Won't Start [Re: mrray] #1037692 08/21/12 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
I read it wrong, but in that case 800ish seems high for a closed dircuit. Test it per the same site as you posted. I like that test better. In fact, test everything his way.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
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