thanks guys. ive looked at a few of all mentioned... the only one i really liked (right color, ding toots, fuel economy and price) sold quick. vw wagon... only thing i didnt like was the size, it was a little small. it seems either they want more than it books for, somethings wrong with it (that they didnt know about <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) or theres something about it that i cant live with like color. so i decided to expand my search into luxury suv's... can pick up a 8yo escalade pretty cheap, but its a little bigger then i think i need and a little more of a gashog then i want. hense the looking at midsize. btw, i keep finding myself more and more interested in early to mid 2000's 300m's... not the intrepid or concorde, just the 300's.