Well, I can tell from discussions there are more than a few gun enthusiasts around here, and I've reached the point in my life where I have the time and the interest to learn the subject. Plus, I finally have enough money to be able to afford one or two, and figure I might as well exercise my second amendment rights with the way the world seems to be going.

What I'd like to do is list my criteria, in order of importance, and have people recommend a rifle and/or pistol that fits the bill. Ultimately, I'd like one of each.

Obviously, safety is a primary concern, and I'll certainly get all the proper equipment and training to go with, but for right now I'm just interested in peoples opinions and experiences.

Requirements:

1) Durability/simplicity - I'm kind of looking for the 22R of guns here. They'll last forever if you take care of them, but should the need (hopefully not) arise, they can handle some use and abuse and not miss a beat. I don't want to need a bunch of special tools for cleaning and servicing, and the fewer parts to lose out in the field the better. I'd much rather have a slightly heavier but more reliable gun than some fancy plastic thing.

2) Ammo availability - I know some amazing guns have come out of eastern Europe and the former Soviet bloc, but if it's the sort of thing where I can only buy ammo from this one guy who knows another one, and it takes 3 months to come in, I'm not interested. I'm by no measure a hardcore survivalist, but I would like to be at least somewhat prepared if TSHTF.

3) Safety - I'm still learning about the safety thing, round in the chamber vs. not and all that, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I've been playing with a friend's MP15, and I'm not super thrilled with the way you can only put the safety on with a round in the chamber/having the gun cocked.

4) Price - And I'm definitely putting this last on the list. The cheaper the better, but I'm definitely willing to pay a reasonable amount more for a quality product. If the difference is thousands of dollars for a gun that's only slightly better, though, I'll pass.

Other things I'm considering, especially for pistols, is size. I have enormous hands, and my wife has tiny ones. I'm guessing we'll probably wind up with his & hers guns, at least in the pistol department.

Rifle wise, I'm quite impressed with the Mosin Nagant (depending on year and condition, of course). I don't have any specific purpose in mind, but hunting and general defense if things ever really go to heck were my primary concerns.

Comments/opinions/experiences, please throw it all out there. Thanks

You need to visit a gun shop and get a pistol in your hand to answer the fit issue.

Availability of ammo does vary. 9mm, .38, .380, .357, and .44 are the most widly available. .40 and.41 are also fairly easy to get.

I settled on a strategy of having fewest calibers as possible. As I already had a Ruger Blackhawk .357, choice for a short barrel rifle came out to a Henry lever-action chambered for .357.

An advantage of .357 is the ability to use .38.

If you want a pistol the will withstand harsh environment and be dependable, you can't beat a revolver. Some autos are more prone to jamming than others. I have a Ruger P-89 9mm which has a good record for dependability.

Manual safeties on most handguns can only be engaged when they're cocked. Glocks don't have manual safeties at all, and police carry them with a round in the chamber all day every day. But if you don't like the idea of keeping it cocked with a round in the chamber, you should be looking at a double-action or DA/SA with a decocker as commonly found on Sig Sauers or H&Ks. Or you could go with a revolver.

It would be extremely unusual for a pistol to require any special cleaning tools. Most disassemble by hand. And if you're losing parts in the field, yer doin it wrong.

I sense that you are a bit overwhelmed by all the choices you have. Abandon the idea that one or two guns will address all your needs simultaneously, then identify and prioritize very specific purpose(s) you have in mind and go from there. Different tools for different jobs. If you say "I want a semi-auto in .45acp with at least 8 round capacity, DA/SA with a decocker any maybe an attachment rail," then you are starting to narrow it down to a manageable number of choices.

For home defense I like a pump shotgun (i.e. Remington 870) and a pistol that holds a bunch of rounds (I like .45acp so I have a Glock 21). Of course, that G21 is difficult for me to conceal so for carry I have a G36 (smaller .45) or a light weight S&W .38 revolver depending on how I'm dressed. For practicing fundamentals of sight picture, trigger squeeze, etc. at the range I like a .22LR pistol because I can run a bunch of rounds through it for cheap.

You should prioritize your first purchases based on real world use. For most people that will be 1) home defense, and 1a) concealed carry if that applies to you. I don't hunt game and I don't know where that falls on your list of priorities. Zombie/SHTF rifles are enticing but I'd save that purchase for some time after the real needs are addressed.

You won't necessarily find the best prices at gun shows but they are a good place to go to check out the selection. Most sellers will give you permission to handle the merchandise, so you can try on a bunch of stuff to see what fits you & the wife without any real sales pressure. Some will grip and point naturally for you and some won't.

If you are really hard up and need one pistol that will be serviceable for home defense as well as concealed carry, not too big and not too small, and fires a ballistically competent self defense caliber that isn't break-the-bank expensive for shooting a bunch of rounds at the range, I'd suggest a mid-size 9mm.

I'd suggest a glock 19 for a pistol.

Most durable, longest lasting, most abuse ready pistol made.

As far as a rifle... if you don't know what you're going to do with it.... well.. you got to figure that out.

If you want a SHTF rifle, you need an ar15, chest rig, and mags.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Just starting to get into it, so I'm not even to the overwhelmed point yet. I'm sure I'll get there soon.

At least at the moment, I'm not concerned with carrying. I'd much rather build skill and experience in the meantime before I consider that sort of thing. Eventually perhaps I'll go as far as keeping something in the car (does that require a permit?), but unless things change drastically, I don't foresee the need/desire to carry.

The rifle is more of a down-the-road purchase, but something I'm still interested in.

Gun laws vary considerably by state. You may want to visit the NRA's site to see if they have a summary.

That being said, I doubt it's legal in CA.

John B.

LMAO. You're in Kali. I'd be surprised if it were legal for you to take a piss in the woods without a permit, which you would only be granted after performing an environmental impact study.

So you're looking for home defense and range practice? In those situations you aren't constrained by size so you can get something with decent capacity. G19 is really popular, and used police trade-in G17s can be cheap. Those are 9mm BTW, which is good from a cost perspective and also because your wife should have no issue with the recoil. My preference in self-defense calibers is .45 but it costs a bit more to shoot. The .40sw will definitely get the job done and it's what the majority of police in the US are issued, but the recoil is a bit more snappy. I don't mind but it may not be to your preference and probably not to your wife's either. But those are the 3 common calibers you'll find in semi-auto pistols. For home defense or when size is not an issue I prefer semi-autos over revolvers primarily due to the 2-3x higher capacity. Revolvers have an advantage in simplicity of handling and jam-free operation, but then again I don't rely on a semi-auto unless I've put several hundred failure-free rounds through it anyway. Obviously there are trade-offs that you will have to prioritize for yourself.

My hands are on the slightly larger side of medium. I like .45 so... Glock 21 is 13+1 rounds and the frame is towards the larger end of what fits me. If you have big hands it's no problem, but it's not going to fit most women. They make a small frame version (G21SF) but that one felt awkward to me. If you don't like the lack of manual safety, look at Sigs. In .45 I like the P220 and P220R (railed version). Those are single stack so the frame is a tad smaller than the double-stack G21, and the P220 is 8+1 capacity. Police trade-in Sigs cost about as much as brand new Glocks. Smith & Wesson M&P handles well for me too. There's also the Springfield XD lineup, and the FN pistols are good. I shot all of those before deciding what to buy and to me the G21 had the best combination of features, feel, and accuracy in my hands. There's a lot of personal preference so I can't tell you what to get.

My wife doesn't have any interest in having her own pistol, but if things go bump she is competent to shoot my .38 revolver. If you're starting with one pistol I still say 9mm because your wife should be able to use it too, and even if you decide to go with another caliber later on, it never hurts to keep a trusty 9mm around.

If you're a total noob I'd recommend something like the NRA Basic Pistol course or similar training at a range near you. You'll learn safe handling, fundamental mechanics and they'll get you on paper, usually using .22LR to start off so you're not flinching from recoil.

My new suggestion.

Hmmm.

I like the new Kel Tec .22wrm automatic, especially for a ladies PD weapon. No recoil flinching, and it holds 30 rounds, so you can go bang as long as they are still twitching. Don't scoff at the caliber, I've seen black bear killed with a .22mag. Muzzle blast is a little outrageous, but that's because the .22mag is powdered for a rifle, a little slow burning. ER docs hate .22 size GSW's - the bullet deflects and does lots of damage in lots of places. It does not generally pass thru the body (or head). Magazine capacity may be a problem for you. Note the previous post.

For me, I'd like a .45. I like the old Sig P245, but it's been discontinued for some time. Not many keep coming after you hit them with a fourfive.

I've never liked the 9mm for some reason - a personal quirk you can disregard. I like the .357 just fine, especially if you go +P loads for some more kinetic energy.

Ditto the pump shotgun. Just shucking a round into the chamber is often enough to make an intruder run like stink. I prefer #1 buckshot over 00 for personal defense - about twice the pellets per round, and they are still plenty big enough.

For a rifle, either an AR15, or a .30-06 or a .308, the first for baddies up close, and the latter two for baddies at a more comfortable distance.

For the 22r of handguns, you want a Glock hands down. 18yrs ago I was in your same situation of not being too familiar w/handguns other than my .45 cal cap/ball revolver. I went in to the gun shop thinking I wanted a 9mm Baretta, but after discussing my wants/concerns, the shop owner recommended the Glock 17. The 17 was too small for my hands, only my middle finger and ring finger were on were off the grip. The Glock19 was on 3 month back order, so I went with the Glock 22. A .40 cal is more expensive to shoot, but it does have more stopping power than a 9mm, and less of a recoil than a .45. If cost of firing is an issue, I would go w/the Glock 19. As mentioned Glocks don't have a separate safety, it is built into the trigger, and releases as you pull the trigger. While this doesn't sound safe, 1000's of tests have shown otherwise, and as far as I know, no one has ever been injured or have had the gun go off accidentally from the built-in trigger safety. There are stories of accidental firing of Glocks out there, however non are due to the gun itself, but from human error, i.e. not checking the chamber(something that one should always do regardless of type), un-holstering w/finger on the trigger(a no no for any handgun), or handling with finger on the trigger when not ready to shoot(something you aren't supposed to do w/any firearm).

For home defense I would go with a 12 gauge shot gun, pump or semi-auto. With a shot gun you have the visual deterrence w/the large barrel and audible with a pump, you don't have to be as accurate(helpful under duress or fog of just being woken-up) and you are less likely to hit/kill someone(through the wall) in another room if you miss.

Under CA law you have to have your handguns in a locked container when in a vehicle or motorcycle, a container other than your glove box or trunk, so no, you can't have one in your car for self-defense, unless it is on your person and you have a concealed permit.