I love the idea of using MS on the 3.5 - with the tunability you'll have I think you'll be able to get significantly more power out of it than stock, especially if you have better-flowing intake and exhaust systems. The 3.5 is factory tuned to run on 87 octane but will advance the timing to take advantage of 91 if you use it. Tuning yours specifically for 91 octane would likely enable even more power and torque.

Please start a thread documenting your MS installation.

There isn't any practical way to fit the 3.0 pan on a 3.5. Block width is different for starters. I had to modify the 3.5L pan to clear my hi-steer steering. You might look at the early Montero 3.5L pan. I have no idea if it might fit. I do Montero Sports, not familiar with the Montero undercarriage.



Don't know if the old pre-96 stuff will bolt up to that engine. If everything bolts up, you'll need the 3.5L plate that goes between the engine and bell housing.



It you MS it that will take care of the heating issue. The MS can do timing.



The 3.0L is more efficient. Much better choice if you're worried about mileage. The torque in the 3.5L is real nice, though.

Edward

I will definitely do a write up of the megasquirting of the 6g74. For now, I'm thinking gutting a stock gen 1 ecu case and using the connectors for the wiring harness. I'll repurpose unused wires for things like coil control and I'll probably convert it to a ford MAF and EDIS, or if I can get the stock coils to work, I wouldn't be opposed to that. I suppose I'll have to switch over to an external voltage regulator and figure something out for the tach... no big deal though.

As far as the oil pan issue.... I was thinking something along the lines of a 1" x 1/8" aluminum bar that I could drill to run the perimeter of the bottom of the 6g74 block, then drill to bolt the 6g72 pan to the inside of the metal bars. get my drift? I think it could be done fairly easy and cheaply.

From my very crude research it looks as though the later 6g74 and early 6g72 share bellhousing bolt patterns. My research consisted of looking up transmissions for both trucks on Ebay and comparing pictures. super scientific, I know, but they appear the exact same!

In MN, we don't have emissions testing. I think with the megasquirt controlling everything I should be able to beat the factory 3.0 mpg numbers with the 3.5 and have more power to boot. I have a 280zx that I megasquirted and did basic bolt ons to and I was able to achieve over 30mpg on the highway at 75+ and 24mpg in the city. you can really lean those suckers out with megasquirt. the factory numbers are 19/26 btw.

Don't worry, I will start a thread and document everything.

Also, why can't I start my own new thread? every time I hit the "post" button it just redirects me to a blank white screen with, what I assume, is the correct address in the address bar.

Ok. Back from southern UT and the blistering 100 degree weather.

The new OEM Ford fan motors and the Spal don't play well together. Known Spal issue. However, the only issue I had was both fans kicking on full and staying there. Which turns out to actually have been a good thing last week.

I found out that if I run both Contour fans on full I have no issues on the highway or trail with the A/C off. It will still overheat both on the highway and trail sometimes with the A/C on. There's no apparent rhyme or reason. Doesn't matter if its on an incline or flat ground or what gear I'm in on the trail.

My solution to the 'problem' is live with the 1% that's left. It works 99% of the time and most importantly it works going over the mountain passes and the interminable miles long inclines coming out of the canyons. I can use the A/C MOST of the time in Moab which overall isn't that much anyway - good enough for me.

I'll need to swap fans - again - before winter. I'm going to try the Spal dual fans assembly - the next one down from the monster they came out with recently. The second from the top will work with their controller while the new assembly is something like 40 amps a fan - no way that'll work with the Spal PWM. The Spal controller has a configuration to wire in a switch to turn both fans on full when needed so that's my last task to complete before our spring trip next year. If the fans work as well as the Ford fans, then I'll be done and I'll have a working configuration for the new '99 build, too.

Its unfortunate that the Ford fans motors don't work right with the Spal. The OEM Ford motors definitely pull more air than the aftermarket ones I originally purchased.

I don't remember who mentioned trying the mechanical fan. Toasty I think. Given how much air I have to move to keep this thing from melting, I'm pretty sure now that won't work.

Now that everything has been replaced and the vehicle is running like new, its real obvious that the timing is way out of whack. While it still runs like a top at 4K feet, its ridiculous how much more power it has at 10-11K feet. Good for me since most of my driving/wheeling is at 6K+ feet, but I have a strong feeling this would seriously suck at sea level.

Oh, almost forgot. The fuel delivery is still out of whack. A few guys on the GT/EVO/Gallant forums recommended using the 3.0L injectors instead of the 3.5L injectors to address this. If I'm feeling incredibly bored some day I may try this. Off road my mileage is terrible. Something like 8-9 MPG. I know everything is working correctly so its not a lingering electronics, etc. issue. I do know the 3.0L NEVER did this bad even when it was running like hell. These two are probably not connected, but ....

Edward

That would be a good one to see.



The 3.0L pan will not clear the main caps. Its not an issue of just re-doing the flange. The pan itself is not wide enough.



I don't think I ever learned what the difference(s) is between the pre-96 and post-96 stuff was. The post-96 stuff is all the same. I have a 2002 3.5L bolted to my early '97 3.0L M/T bell housing. I was reading some threads a couple weeks ago that guys are starting to transplant in the 3.8L (think that was the next one up from the 3.5L).



Sorry. No idea on that one.

Edward

Guys.
Does anybody have a Montero Sport 6G74 sump and a Montero Sport 6G72 sump that they can measure & compare?

I'm doing a 6G75 swap into where a 6G72 currently resides on an MK Triton (L200 to some) (I'm in Australia)

Earlier posts discuss the 6G74 being further forward than the 6G72 (easily plausible for gearbox or other clearance). Just how much?

It may be that the 6G74 sump needs some mods to get the 6G75 in, but the 6G72 needs a lot of work (probably lots of cutting & welding of two sumps (6G74/5 on the block face, 6G72 on the lower) to make one. I'd like to avoid this if possible.)

Second option. Anybody got a 6G74 Montero sport sump they'd like to post to Aus for a reasonable price?

Nothing here. I got rid of the 3.0L. I do have a 6G74 lower pan, but not the upper half.



The engine itself doesn't sit 'further forward'. We took the 3.0L out and dropped the 3.5L in exactly the same location and bolted it up. No changes were made other than to chop the '97 3.0L and the '02 3.5L motor mount frame brackets to make a complete pair that would mount to the frame. I was showing this a couple weeks ago to the Mitsu tech when he was replacing the motor mounts. Everything sits in the OEM locations for the 3.0L.

What the tech brought up when he was doing the timing belt, etc. last month is that the 3.5L seems to be slightly longer but all the extra length is forward of the motor mounts. I have absolutely nothing to substantiate this. Next month when I get started on the cooling for the new '99 build, I'll get a tape measure out and measure the 3.0L and 3.5L.

Edward

Time for an update:

So... I've got two week+ trips to Moab under this thing and so far so good. Somewhere along the line something or somethings were fixed that straightened out the general operation which cut way back on the overheating problem.

Basically, I replaced with OEM everything under the hood except the engine cam and crank sensors, the basic wiring and injectors. This included all the emissions stuff and the EVAP canister.

That helped a lot for last August's trip. That got it to the point where with the Contour fans on full, it wouldn't overheat on the passes or in 4WD. Unfortunately the fans were on full a LOT. Really noisy (and irritating) when you're wheeling and both those fans running full on sucks gas. Replacing the Chinese fans with the OEM Motorcraft fans made a big difference and continue to do so.

For some reason my oil pump started leaking in Jan and it was very close to time to do the timing belt and stuff so ... New timing belt, tensioners, etc., oil pump, blaa blaa blaa. In the process the tech found out the belt tensioned was froze up. After it was fixed I realized that obviously wasn't doing anything good to the timing. We're guessing that's been that way for several years.

Short of putting a new engine in, everything Mitsu in the engine bay is now new. Yippee.

Now I'm down to no overheating in 4WD or on the highway over the passes. The highest I saw on the passes going out and coming back was around 208F and that was briefly. The secondary kicks on about there so that's what I'd expect to see. So temperatures don't look any different than my stock '03 3.5L.

I got more movement off road in 4WD but nowhere near the nightmare behavior predating last August. In general it would exhibit the same behavior as on the highway passes. The temps would slowly work their way up into the mid-200/210F range and then slowly drift back down. The fans were on full a lot less frequently this trip.

This reflects exactly what I've been seeing the last month and a half DDing around town. Usually I can get it to push up to 208-210F's kicking both fans on driving up to the house. So far it'll get up to about 203-205F or so.

Whatever was fixed - or whatever mix of things - something was wrong that was contributing to the whole overheating issue. At this point its definitely driveable and wheelable even in the 100+ temps in Moab. I have a two week Moab trip this Aug and I'll wait until then to see if I'm done dealing with this or not.

What has not been 'fixed' is the fact that there is still detonation due to the 'too much timing' issue from the 3.0L ECM. After rebuilding almost the entire vehicle in the last year and a half, I've gotten rid of so many little noises and vibrations that I can definitely hear the 'pinging' when I lug the engine a little at lower speeds. I will be surprised if I get another 100K out of the engine.

On the + side, it runs like a top. I can't complain there. Unfortunately it now sucks gas in 4WD Loanything. It is UNBELIEVABLY bad. Around 8-10 MPG. On the street its about 1.5-2 MPG less than my '03 - fairly consistent @ 15.7-16.3 MPG. I think the bad off road mileage is due to the timing but ... may be time to pull the top and do a compression check.

Edward

You may have said it earlier in the thread, but, question for you concerning the fans.

As I understand, you are running dual fans. Now, are the electric or belt driven? If belt driven, is there a clutch driver that trips based on temp?

I ask because I have experienced problems with thermo-clutch driven fans and not a big fan.

Full electric driven do have their ideiocrancies to adjust driving habits.

Yep. The Ford Contour dual electric fan/shroud assembly with the last version Spal fan controller (before they discontinued it). I've been running this setup for close to 10 years now. Originally with the original 3.0L, and then with the 3.5L transplant.

I never had a problem with the 3.0L irrespective of what I was doing with the vehicle. 100F+ temps in UT, Lo-Lo-Lowhatever, mountain passes in 90F, 1000 lbs of gear and people - nothing ever made a difference in operating temperatures. I did not, in fact, ever have a problem with the OEM mechanical fan under the same conditions.

There never were any 'idiosyncrasies' to adjust to with the Contour fans and Spal controller. What I DID have to learn was how to set up electric fans on a computer controlled vehicle. One with really picky ECM programming. And it also took a bit to understand - with some help from Spal engineering - the theory behind their controller. Once I figured out that the old ECMs really don't like lots of up/down temperature fluctuation and that the Spal controller is supposed to be programed to emulate a mechanical fan's behavior, the cooling system doesn't behave any different than the mechanical system did.

Which is how it should work. There shouldn't be any 'idiosyncrasies'. If there are then there's an issue somewhere.

After I finish the '99 3.5L build, I'll go back to transplanting a A/T 3.5L ECM into this Sport. As much as I hate the thought of converting it to a A/T, that's the direction I'm heading. I can't get my M/Ts rebuilt reliably here in CO and I'm still having lifespan issues with the intermediate shaft between the transmission and doubler. If I switch over to the AW3 I can still use the NP231 stuff and then I won't have to figure out how to fake out the A/T ECM, I can just wire the OEM TCU in and call it a day. That'll permanently fix the excess timing problem.

Edward