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Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? #1059057 04/19/13 07:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
<queue the "Real Men of Genius" music...>
In a Moment of DerpÖ, I timed my 2.6 without tending to the needs of my balance shafts. Now, instead of generating vibrations which cancel out the natural vibrations of the G54B, they amplify them. Around 2000rpm, everything vibrates. Mirrors, windows, dash trim, steering column, skid plates, you name it. I've been driving like this for a couple months, but I don't advise doing it long term.

Tomorrow, I'm going to delete the balance shafts. I'm looking for any last minute tips to keep in mind before tomorrow morning.

I have my BSEK from Parts Dinosaur, with a new chain, bearing blank, and sprocket. I've also got left over, new gaskets for the water and oil pumps, likely front case as well. Fresh oil, coolant, distilled water, even one of them fancy NAPA Gold oil filters this time. Ready to finally get things back to where they should be.

Thinking my process will be:

- drain oil/coolant
- remove radiator, fan, shroud
- remove belts
- remove water pump
- remove valve cover, (2) head bolts into front case
- remove oil pan bolts that go into front case
- remove upper/right balance shaft
- remove oil pump, lower/left balance shaft

Any tips or tricks? Any problems I should prepare for or best practices to make sure this goes smoothly?

Thanks!


Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: DR1665] #1059058 04/20/13 03:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
You will tear the pan gasket unless you loosen all the bolts and drop the pan down some at least, if not remove it all the way. To remove the pan, you have to remove the xmember and remove a couple of diff carrier bolts and let it rotate downward and to the front some so the pan will clear the oil pump. This last step may not be necessary, as the pan will drop enough to let the timing cover come off, but perhaps not enough to put a new gasket on the pan...


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: fasteddy] #1059059 04/20/13 04:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Thanks, Eddy. I actually left the pan on when I replaced all this stuff a couple months ago. Just used a razor to cut the old gasket away, then cut the end off a new gasket for the exposed end, and sealed everything up with RTV. Of course, this time, I'll be sliding the front case straight forward instead of lifting it up and out, so I will definitely loosen the pan for more wiggle room.

Thanks!


Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: DR1665] #1059060 04/20/13 05:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 11
J
justrob Offline
Need a Spot
I suppose the question is why eliminate them? the cons out weigh the pros...

Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: justrob] #1059061 04/20/13 06:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
I suppose the question is why eliminate them? the cons out weigh the pros...

Actually, the pros outweigh the cons.

I come from the 4G63 community, where the balance shafts are spun by a small belt which rides on the crank pulley behind the timing belt. When the balance shaft belt fails, it typically takes the timing belt with it, resulting in piston-to-valve contact, resulting in a set of very expensive ash trays. On the 4G54, the balance shafts are spun by a chain in front of the timing belt, but since I didn't properly time them when I put the engine back together a couple months back, they're out of sync and are creating more vibration than normal. Being a 25 year old riding lawn mower with a windshield and doors, I'm not worried about "NVH," but I would like to ensure all the nuts and bolts on the thing stay nice and tight. No telling what could happen over time with this kind of vibration. I have to go in there anyway, might as well reduce moving parts.

A reduction in complexity is always a good bet. Removing them means less parts to fail. It also means less rotating mass (I suspect they weigh between 10-20lbs altogether), which makes the already underpowered lump a bit more lively.


Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: DR1665] #1059062 04/20/13 06:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,134
TOASTY Offline
Trail Leader
*****
and breaks the power steering pump bracket eventually. I'm on team non eliminate.


1999 Montero SAS'd on Kings and stuff

1998 Montero trying to get a V8 Swapped
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: DR1665] #1059063 04/20/13 06:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 413
spencevans Offline
Mudrunner
Quote
Quote
I suppose the question is why eliminate them? the cons out weigh the pros...

Actually, the pros outweigh the cons.

I come from the 4G63 community, where the balance shafts are spun by a small belt which rides on the crank pulley behind the timing belt. When the balance shaft belt fails, it typically takes the timing belt with it, resulting in piston-to-valve contact, resulting in a set of very expensive ash trays. On the 4G54, the balance shafts are spun by a chain in front of the timing belt, but since I didn't properly time them when I put the engine back together a couple months back, they're out of sync and are creating more vibration than normal. Being a 25 year old riding lawn mower with a windshield and doors, I'm not worried about "NVH," but I would like to ensure all the nuts and bolts on the thing stay nice and tight. No telling what could happen over time with this kind of vibration. I have to go in there anyway, might as well reduce moving parts.

A reduction in complexity is always a good bet. Removing them means less parts to fail. It also means less rotating mass (I suspect they weigh between 10-20lbs altogether), which makes the already underpowered lump a bit more lively.


Yeah, it still does not make sense why you would eliminate them. Just because it can be modified, doesn't mean it is an improvement.


Spence
1985 Mitsubishi PU 2.3 Turbo Diesel, 13" lift, Watercooled turbo, 4D56 Head, Atlas II,Fox Coilovers, Elockers,

1983 Mitsubishi PU 2.5 Turbo Diesel 4x4, fully restored

2003 G500, sliders, beadlocks, roofrack, ladder etc.
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: spencevans] #1059064 04/20/13 06:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote

Yeah, it still does not make sense why you would eliminate them. Just because it can be modified, doesn't mean it is an improvement.


Reasons to eliminate the balance shafts:

1. Reduce the complexity of the engine. Less moving parts means reduced failure points. This is an improvement.
2. Reduced rotating mass within the engine. More horsepower to the wheels. This is an improvement.
3. They serve no purpose other than reducing the perception of vibration. AC is more important.

And, since mine are out of phase and I have to go back in and mess with them, I might as well eliminate a potential failure point and lighten the load.

EDIT: Someone will have to explain to me how eliminating balance shafts inside the engine stands to have any impact on the power steering pump. For now, I'm racking out for the night. Gotta be up early in the morning to get started.

Last edited by DR1665; 04/20/13 06:44 AM.

Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: DR1665] #1059065 04/20/13 07:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 11
J
justrob Offline
Need a Spot
I've been building and driving 4g63/64 powered vehicles since the mid 90's and I've never had a balance shaft belt fail, but then again I properly maintain my engines. I still build high HP evos and 4g63 based things and leave the counter balance system in them with no failures to date. I used to take them out but figured out quick that the power gain is negligible to none, the resonant harmonics introduced are annoying and will fatigue and break various hard parts in and bolted to the engine faster, it's work to remove them and anyway your running a chain in the G45b so you don't ever really have to worry about it breaking.
But hey, whatever tickles your pickle <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: justrob] #1059066 04/20/13 12:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 403
Lizzord30 Offline
Mudrunner
I have done the elim on about 6 different 2.6's only 2 of them being NA motors. one of the na motors had a pretty bad vibration, and one of the turbo motors had a pretty bad vibration. Most are not really that noticeable. That being said I have had one fail.... and broke the chain... and that chain is connected to the oil pump.... so yeah I have thoes things! For my motor that was balanced and rebuilt with the BS out its hard to tell it has the BS removed! Basicly from what I can tell is they used the BS so they dont bother to balance the motor lol
So if your going to rebuild the motor remove them and get your assembly blanaced. When the vibration is bad its very annoying, but having had one kill a motor I would always remove them! But like said before if you do matinace on them (replace bearings and chain, plus adjuster when it needs it) Which almost no one does...
On a side note I like the added oil pressure you get with them out.


89 Monturbo (RIP now but the heart is in the 90!)
90 Montero with 2.6 turbo swap! (close to finished)
88 Starion MPI T3/T4 Magna M8 head.....
96 Volvo 850
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