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Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: Lizzord30] #1059067 04/20/13 07:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
One more time. The BS's counter a second order shaking force which is caused by the piston pin offset in ALL I4 engines. In a large I4 like the 2.6 the problem is severe. The offset pin causes the pistons to move at different speeds on the up and down stroke, causing the engine to rock back and forth. Balancing the engine will do nothing to eliminate this force. I broke a handfull of ps pump brackets, and the alloy a/c bracket broke into a dozen pieces, and the alt bracket broke several times. I also broke about 4 motor mounts. You could not see if the car following you was a cop or a semi at cruise because all the rv mirrors vibrated so much it was all a blur.

The power drain is negligible. I would never build a 2.6 without the shafts. Porsche thought so much of the bs tech that they licensed the use from mitsu for the 924/944.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: fasteddy] #1059068 04/21/13 02:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Okay. Riddle me this:

I get into the nitty gritty. Spin things around a dozen or so times, none of the timing marks line up for sh*t. Say what? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />

4G63 - set belt to marks, spin it around a couple times, make sure marks are still good.
420A - set belt to marks, spin it around a couple times, make sure marks are still good.
G54B - set chain, spin it around a couple times, nothing lines up. Spin it some more, still don't line up. Spin, spin, spin, spin, spin. Marks never line up again. Pull cam sprocket bolt, pull guides, pull oil pump and balance shaft , start the eff over again. Same thing happens.

I decided to leave the balance shafts in after all. Had one of the chain guide bolts in the oil pan. Two of the front case bolts were completely loose, just too long to fall out (even with blue Loctite on them).

The deeper I get into this, the more I realize there's no friggin' way I could have timed it wrong with the balance shafts out of phase. When #1 is TDC, both balance shafts are pointing downward. Per the FSM, the mark on the lower/left/oil shaft is about 7 o'clock and the upper/right is about 12:30, with the crank sprocket indexed on a key. I've tried to intentionally time the balance shafts out of phase. Can't do it.

So, while I put this damn thing back together again, what theories does the group have as to why, as the tach crosses 2000rpm, the vibrations get so bad, the mirrors are useless, and half the sheetmetal on the truck buzzes? This vibration goes away as you pass 3000rpm, is all but gone at 75mph.

I've just wasted a Saturday, it seems. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Elimination: Last Minute Tips? [Re: DR1665] #1059069 04/21/13 05:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 403
Lizzord30 Offline
Mudrunner
Its a bit of a mystery! Since my engine in the starion is smooth till you let off without any noticeable vibration at any rpm, but other engines Ive had........... was terrible!

About the broken Power steering pump brackets, almost all of them get a crack, I have like 5 of them (was recently looking for them) and pretty much all are cracked but only one would be unusable, some of them was with bs and some without, basically I think not so good design.

That said the theory behind it is sound, but you must do the maintenance to back it up! Replace the bearings when you do the chain, adjust the chain a few times between replacing the chain, and need to make sure your oil pump is 100%.
And fact is some 2.6's run alot more vibration free then others for no apparent reason.


89 Monturbo (RIP now but the heart is in the 90!)
90 Montero with 2.6 turbo swap! (close to finished)
88 Starion MPI T3/T4 Magna M8 head.....
96 Volvo 850
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: Lizzord30] #1059070 04/22/13 06:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Put it all back together, got big pop when connecting battery. 100A ALT link by battery is smoked.

Only disconnected bat, alt, cap/coil. Alt only connects one way, right? 10mm nut on post, plastic plug?

Gutted. Ideas?


Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: DR1665] #1059071 04/22/13 03:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
87monty Offline
Rock Warrior
****
I will throw my 2 pennys in, my Conquest Sti build has Bs removed.
I have put over 10.000 miles on and offroad with no vibration in all rpm ranges. I may be 1 out of 5 but I do agree, the less moving parts the less that (Can fail). Its really up to you and what you feel good about. The 4G64 build I did is also a none Bs motor. My friend builds some of the the best 4G motors with none Bs kits.
Here is one we just finished up <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdYEDhjzwe0&feature=youtu.be

Last edited by 87monty; 04/22/13 03:31 PM.


2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: DR1665] #1059072 04/22/13 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,557
LandRaider Offline
Forum Moderator
*****
Something is shorted to ground. I'd make sure you did not pinch any wires, or drop something on the starter leads... like a nut/bolt/washer/wrench.


87 Raider 4D56td v5MT1
31's..Basically Stock
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: LandRaider] #1059073 04/22/13 07:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 593
DR1665 Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Called in "dead" today. Not going to work. Gonna head out in a few to trace the wires from the starter and alternator. Hope this is something simple.

By the way, it took a little effort to get the 100A link out. Ended up leaving posts behind. Is that right? I've got a dozen of these in smaller ratings, and they always seem to just pull right out, but this guy seemed to fight. Murphy's Law, it's probably supposed to stay in there, right?

And how might I check the sub-fusible links on the driver's side? Didn't really see much on troubleshooting them in the FSM.

Thanks.


Brian DR1665 | GBXM | Gearheads United.
89 Raider SWB [rock] | 91 Galant VR4 [roller]
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: DR1665] #1059074 04/22/13 07:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,211
JohnnyBfromPeoria Offline
Trail Leader
*****
Fusible links will be burned in half if they're bad.

John B.


'87 Raider 2.6 Turbo Auto, Under Construction
'95 Montero SR, 35x12.5/15 BFG M/T KM-2's, Rock sliders, Qtr panel chop, gas tank lift, 2" BL, Aisins, 5.29s
'95 Pajero Mini
'98 Montero Winter Ed.
'04 Cadillac XLR
'03 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
'60 Ford Falcon 4Dr
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: JohnnyBfromPeoria] #1059075 04/22/13 08:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,134
TOASTY Offline
Trail Leader
*****
Mine have bolts running through the blades.


1999 Montero SAS'd on Kings and stuff

1998 Montero trying to get a V8 Swapped
Re: Balance Shaft Leave-Aloneness: now won't start! [Re: 87monty] #1059076 04/22/13 08:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,511
ryany Offline
Body Damage is Cool
FYI -
[Linked Image]


95 Montero SR
3.8 MIVEC, Advance headers, 2 1/2" exhaust, Magnaflow muffler, OME shocks & rear springs, 2" body lift, 3" tank lift, 4.90s, TRE front locker, factory rear locker, Roger Brown Rock Sliderz, 315/75r16 (35") tires, Sport big brakes
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