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alignment needed #1061157 06/24/13 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 108
J
jwthemechanic Offline OP
Wheeler
Well the trucks is getting closer and closer to being done. I am at the point where an alignment is due and I can't find a shop that will do the adjustment the way the factory says to do it. They want to adjust caster with different thickness shims on either front or back side of the control arm. Is this permissible? will the caster change at a different rate during turning doing this way? or cause any other problems?
I've been to five shops and the prices range from $90 to $200 and only the $200 one would set the camber near 0 but still shimming it wrong. Two shops turned me away after realizing how difficult the job would be.
The stealership quoted me $90 but I think the service writer was too distracted checking out my truck (at least someone appreciates it) or really hates the alignment guy.


"Turbobitchero" (named by jealous wife) 87 swb base, 89 starion intercooled turbo engine, Bouncy seat, posi in rear, "miller locked" in the front with manual hubs, 3" BL, 305/70/16 bfg's. Sponsored by IAWDLR Racing
Re: alignment needed [Re: jwthemechanic] #1061158 06/24/13 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
camber is always done with shims between the upper control arm shaft and the frame mounting point. You can't put them on the back side like they say. $90 is a decent price for doing it right. You need to set all 3, toe, caster, and camber. Gen1 can adjust caster, gen2 can't. Caster is adjusted on the gen1 by turning the upper CA shaft in the threads in the bushings for it. This tilts the steering pivot axis back and forth, changing the caster angle. More neg caster increases self centering and straight ahead cruising centering, while slightly increasing effort to turn. With larger tires, you want to add neg caster a tad above max factory spec. This really cuts down on wander. You also with big shoes want as close to zero camber as you can get. The truck sits stock with the bottoms in. Flatter is better with wider tires, for a larger all around contact patch that's equally loaded side to side. Factory toe seems to work fine, but go to an alignment shop with a side force gauge, as fine tuning the toe in with it is beneficial to tire wear.

Hopefully, you want a four wheel alignment. They can't adjust the rears, but it will align the front to the rear thrust line, and everybody will be happier. This is sometimes called a thrust angle alignment, and should be cheaper than a full 4 wheel alignment.

If you have a v6, make sure the trailing arm bushings on the rear axle are tight. On a 4cyl, make sure the spring and shackle bushings are tight...


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: alignment needed [Re: fasteddy] #1061159 06/24/13 11:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 108
J
jwthemechanic Offline OP
Wheeler
Thanks, but I don't think this answers my question. The alignment had been done using different thickness shims from front bolt hole to rear bolt hole, between control arm and frame to adj caster in the past, so it can be physically done but is it ok to do so? and does it drastically change the ratio of caster from stock setup?

This method of shimming is the only way anyplace will do it and I already wasted money at sears and they really screwed it up. Maybe the stealership will do it right but I doubt it, going to try I guess.

You say add negative caster but specs is 2,57+/-30'. do I subtract or add to this number because it appears to be positive?

Last edited by jwthemechanic; 06/24/13 11:50 PM.

"Turbobitchero" (named by jealous wife) 87 swb base, 89 starion intercooled turbo engine, Bouncy seat, posi in rear, "miller locked" in the front with manual hubs, 3" BL, 305/70/16 bfg's. Sponsored by IAWDLR Racing
Re: alignment needed [Re: jwthemechanic] #1061160 06/25/13 12:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
I don't think you will see positive caster on any car, unless it's made to spin. Positive caster gives you the steering pivot point behind the center of the contact patch, which will make the wheel fight running straight ahead and flop to the ends of steering travel, putting you into the ditch or oncoming with remarkable vigor. Impossible to control. Like pushing a grocery cart with the caster wheels pointed backward and keeping them that way. Not gonna happen.

I think shimming different ways on the same side two bolts that hold the a arm pivot shaft to the frame is doodoo. It's not made to bolt up like that. The arm will be cocked on the shims, and the bolt heads won't sit flush when you tighten it up. Looks like a dandy way to lose shims as it loosens up. Run away...

Last edited by fasteddy; 06/25/13 12:23 AM.

Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: alignment needed [Re: fasteddy] #1061161 06/25/13 06:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 108
J
jwthemechanic Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote


I think shimming different ways on the same side two bolts that hold the a arm pivot shaft to the frame is doodoo. It's not made to bolt up like that. The arm will be cocked on the shims, and the bolt heads won't sit flush when you tighten it up. Looks like a dandy way to lose shims as it loosens up. Run away...


Exactly what I was thinking, but this appears to be common practice. I will try the stealership


"Turbobitchero" (named by jealous wife) 87 swb base, 89 starion intercooled turbo engine, Bouncy seat, posi in rear, "miller locked" in the front with manual hubs, 3" BL, 305/70/16 bfg's. Sponsored by IAWDLR Racing
Re: alignment needed [Re: jwthemechanic] #1061162 06/25/13 03:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 108
J
jwthemechanic Offline OP
Wheeler
The dealership got it done! Took less than 45 min and was done correctly. Camber is less than a degree (barely) and she drives much better. The tech must have done quite a few in the past.
Now to find a good steering box. Is it normal to have more than an inch and half of free play measured from the top of the steering wheel before it actually starts to turn the wheels? All tie rods, ball joints, and the idler are all new. The play is coming from the box and there is no adjustment for this. It looks like the circulator ball groves are worn out. The steering box is from a 91 (corrected)lwb I believe. The stock one was junk. The PO must have looked like Popeye because it appears he had driven years with no fluid flowing thru it.

Last edited by jwthemechanic; 06/25/13 08:11 PM.

"Turbobitchero" (named by jealous wife) 87 swb base, 89 starion intercooled turbo engine, Bouncy seat, posi in rear, "miller locked" in the front with manual hubs, 3" BL, 305/70/16 bfg's. Sponsored by IAWDLR Racing
Re: alignment needed [Re: jwthemechanic] #1061163 06/25/13 06:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
there is an adjustment for the box. screw slot with lock nut on the top of the box, Adjust carefully, because you can go too far and it won't self center return due to the friction on the input shaft. Also check the shaft ujoints for slop. Check the idler shaft closely for slop in the pivot...


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: alignment needed [Re: fasteddy] #1061164 06/25/13 07:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 108
J
jwthemechanic Offline OP
Wheeler
That adjustment is good. It adjusts the lash of gears and I adjusted it, I even overtightened a little bit and still had the freeplay present. I took it apart for inspection and the only thing I found wrong with it was what appears to be excessive wear in the ball groves, no specs for that. I guess I need to get another box.


"Turbobitchero" (named by jealous wife) 87 swb base, 89 starion intercooled turbo engine, Bouncy seat, posi in rear, "miller locked" in the front with manual hubs, 3" BL, 305/70/16 bfg's. Sponsored by IAWDLR Racing







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