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Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: lordtrunks] #1062598 08/23/13 07:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
87monty Offline
Rock Warrior
****
Quote
km145 is just a pile of crap johnnyb burned thru them i can't tell you home many times he had his rebuilt at the end it seemed like every 6 months, eric d burned thru them, pa_jero couldn't keep them alive behind his diesel. beware <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

What about the starion gears swap? from what I hear they are better than the stock truck ones. You would think so because the car came with turbo 2.6 that we use. I know our rigs are heavy and running tall tires is asking for it but... I have been warned... its one of them things you have to fined out for yourself. worst that can happen is I put my power hog back in <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> I just have a hard time thinking these just take a chit with out some kind of abuse.

Just saying <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/oink.gif" alt="" />



2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: 87monty] #1062599 08/23/13 08:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,211
JohnnyBfromPeoria Offline
Trail Leader
*****
They do [email]cr@p[/email] the bed without abuse. I greatly dislike the KM-145 and I never want to see another one.

John B.


'87 Raider 2.6 Turbo Auto, Under Construction
'95 Montero SR, 35x12.5/15 BFG M/T KM-2's, Rock sliders, Qtr panel chop, gas tank lift, 2" BL, Aisins, 5.29s
'95 Pajero Mini
'98 Montero Winter Ed.
'04 Cadillac XLR
'03 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
'60 Ford Falcon 4Dr
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: JohnnyBfromPeoria] #1062600 08/24/13 01:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Here's the best you can do with a US market bolt up solution:

90 2.6 4wd pickup uses the v5m21 gearbox, with a stronger 5th gear and improved shifter on 2nd gear.

Otherwise, it's finding/making a bellhousing for a v5mt1 or importing a 2.5 diesel v4m31, or sourcing an adapter plate for another make driver's drop 5spd/tcase.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: fasteddy] #1062601 08/24/13 02:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
87monty Offline
Rock Warrior
****
Quote
Here's the best you can do with a US market bolt up solution:

90 2.6 4wd pickup uses the v5m21 gearbox, with a stronger 5th gear and improved shifter on 2nd gear.

Otherwise, it's finding/making a bellhousing for a v5mt1 or importing a 2.5 diesel v4m31, or sourcing an adapter plate for another make driver's drop 5spd/tcase.

Is it possible to heat treat the gears that are weak?
Is the starion gears not worth the swap?
I wonder if the gears are interchangeable? Seems like the same transmission for this fsm but just better parts.
but then again what do I know <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.kiev.ua/Manuals/Transmission/pwee8914/22D.pdf

Last edited by 87monty; 08/24/13 02:49 AM.


2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: 87monty] #1062602 08/24/13 04:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
The cases are very similar, v5m21-km145, but there are serious chnges to the gears. The km145 has a thin 5th gear, and it tends to split. This is due to the gearing of the countershaft. The v5m21 changes all the mainshaft gears and the countershaft gears to allow a thicker 5th gear. I don't know if the gears will swap, but they may well do so.

The starion gears share the same problem, but the starion is lighter, and spins smaller tires, even if it handles more power. The highest stock power the 2.6T puts out is about 206-210. Jason is doing quite a bit better than that. And he tows up the Grapevine in 5th...

I have the fsm on the v5m21/km145, and note a lot of differences in the bearings and spacers and gears and snap rings - I bet swapping stuff will be a nightmare.

Look at how the tranny works. The input shaft gear spins the countershaft. Power is taken off the countershaft by locking the selected gear to the mainshaft with the synchro for that gear. In the v4m21, the countershaft is speeded up by changing the ratio of the input shaft gear and the countershaft input gear. All the other gear ratios are changed to maintain the proper gear ratios and intervals. The km145 is a 5spd modification of the km132 4psd. They grafted on 5th, and the physical constraints of shaft and counter gear ratio dictated a very small 5th gear on the output shaft. The size of the output shaft then dictated a very thin 5th gear wall. It worked ok behind 90-110hp engines, but was deemed too weak for the v6, thus the v5mt1 iron box behind that one. The starion used a lot of tricks to make the tranny survive, like limiting boost in 1st and 2nd on the 88-89.

I bet you could use all the tricks in the book, cryo and shotpeening and heat treating and still split the thin walled 5th gear under 250+hp and big tires and a heavy truck. Plus the fact that the km145 eats input shaft bearings with regularity. You might be able to have a custom 5th countergear hobbed out of unobtanium, but it would cost serious bucks.

If you must have a 5spd, it still looks like stockpiling km145 spares, a still marginal v5m21 (tho still stronger than a km145), or the options noted in my post above.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: fasteddy] #1062603 08/24/13 05:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
87monty Offline
Rock Warrior
****
Quote
The cases are very similar, v5m21-km145, but there are serious chnges to the gears. The km145 has a thin 5th gear, and it tends to split. This is due to the gearing of the countershaft. The v5m21 changes all the mainshaft gears and the countershaft gears to allow a thicker 5th gear. I don't know if the gears will swap, but they may well do so.

The starion gears share the same problem, but the starion is lighter, and spins smaller tires, even if it handles more power. The highest stock power the 2.6T puts out is about 206-210. Jason is doing quite a bit better than that. And he tows up the Grapevine in 5th...

I have the fsm on the v5m21/km145, and note a lot of differences in the bearings and spacers and gears and snap rings - I bet swapping stuff will be a nightmare.

Look at how the tranny works. The input shaft gear spins the countershaft. Power is taken off the countershaft by locking the selected gear to the mainshaft with the synchro for that gear. In the v4m21, the countershaft is speeded up by changing the ratio of the input shaft gear and the countershaft input gear. All the other gear ratios are changed to maintain the proper gear ratios and intervals. The km145 is a 5spd modification of the km132 4psd. They grafted on 5th, and the physical constraints of shaft and counter gear ratio dictated a very small 5th gear on the output shaft. The size of the output shaft then dictated a very thin 5th gear wall. It worked ok behind 90-110hp engines, but was deemed too weak for the v6, thus the v5mt1 iron box behind that one. The starion used a lot of tricks to make the tranny survive, like limiting boost in 1st and 2nd on the 88-89.

I bet you could use all the tricks in the book, cryo and shotpeening and heat treating and still split the thin walled 5th gear under 250+hp and big tires and a heavy truck. Plus the fact that the km145 eats input shaft bearings with regularity. You might be able to have a custom 5th countergear hobbed out of unobtanium, but it would cost serious bucks.

If you must have a 5spd, it still looks like stockpiling km145 spares, a still marginal v5m21 (tho still stronger than a km145), or the options noted in my post above.

Thanks FE for all the great info, you may have just saved me from a grave decision on my part, I will have to say all of us like different thing's and some want to try different thing's. I feel that a engine like the one I built (4g64) needs a 5 speed behind it. Man I just need to save my$ and get the adapter made for 300$ and forget about it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />



2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: 87monty] #1062604 08/24/13 01:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,079
lordtrunks Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
300 bucks is a pretty good deal and it'll take a little work and time/blood(automotive gods need this) but the upgrade in strength will be worth it and you won't have to cruise down the road thinking is today gonna be the day this gives out on me.


89 2 dr turbo diesel
89/88 "Backwoods sas"
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: lordtrunks] #1062605 08/24/13 08:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
87monty Offline
Rock Warrior
****
Quote
300 bucks is a pretty good deal and it'll take a little work and time/blood(automotive gods need this) but the upgrade in strength will be worth it and you won't have to cruise down the road thinking is today gonna be the day this gives out on me.

I will agree, I am going to do the adapter for sure, I was looking into other options like the Jeep 4x4 AX15 trans very close to the r151 Toyota trans, its a drivers side drop also, good thing is there everywhere. Toyota driver side drop is like a needle in a hay stack and$$$, Does anyone here now the output rotation of the trans to tcase? I know the front axle is counterclockwise but that's it. This is my only concern at this point.

Link to good info
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ax15.htm

Last edited by 87monty; 08/24/13 08:30 PM.


2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: 87monty] #1062606 08/25/13 02:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Stop and think. If you use a chain drive tcase, the front driveshaft must always turn the same direction as the rear. It does not matter what side drop.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: The SR is gone.. Time to give REDCAR alittle lovin... [Re: fasteddy] #1062607 08/25/13 09:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
87monty Offline
Rock Warrior
****
Quote
Stop and think. If you use a chain drive tcase, the front driveshaft must always turn the same direction as the rear. It does not matter what side drop.

I figured that was the case, my question was more towards the output shaft rotation to the transfer case. But now that I did stop and think the rotation has to be counterclockwise for it to work. (Well setting in the drivers seat). I have picked up a 1990 jeep tcase for super cheep.
Sure have learned alot in the last week!
(fixed attached picture too)

Attached Files
1282210-20130825_172057.jpg (0 Bytes, 32 downloads)
Last edited by 87monty; 08/26/13 01:52 AM.


2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
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