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Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: geocrasher] #1063484 08/31/13 01:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,458
rxinhed Offline
Trail Leader
*****
Is the solenoid power wire plugged in? Battery charged up? Are the cables good?...not just the ends...

Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: rxinhed] #1063485 08/31/13 01:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 628
geocrasher Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
Is the solenoid power wire plugged in? Battery charged up? Are the cables good?...not just the ends...


Yeah once whatever isn't making contact actually made contact (as I sat there turning the key over and over again) it started right up. I recently put a new battery cable on. and re-ended a wire from the harness that needed it, and the solenoid wire is plugged in properly.


1987 Raider, 346K miles and going strong -31" tires, otherwise stock.
http://tidbitsfortechs.com/
http://actionpcs.com <-- $39 remote PC repair, guaranteed.
How to include pictures in threads on 4x4wire (Youtube video)
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: geocrasher] #1063486 08/31/13 03:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,511
ryany Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Quote
I recently put a new battery cable on.


There are two battery cables, what condition are the connections in on the one that you didn't replace?


95 Montero SR
3.8 MIVEC, Advance headers, 2 1/2" exhaust, Magnaflow muffler, OME shocks & rear springs, 2" body lift, 3" tank lift, 4.90s, TRE front locker, factory rear locker, Roger Brown Rock Sliderz, 315/75r16 (35") tires, Sport big brakes
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: ryany] #1063487 08/31/13 05:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 628
geocrasher Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
Quote
I recently put a new battery cable on.


There are two battery cables, what condition are the connections in on the one that you didn't replace?


I inspected the ground cable at the same time I replaced the starter cable. It did not look bad at all.


1987 Raider, 346K miles and going strong -31" tires, otherwise stock.
http://tidbitsfortechs.com/
http://actionpcs.com <-- $39 remote PC repair, guaranteed.
How to include pictures in threads on 4x4wire (Youtube video)
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: geocrasher] #1063488 08/31/13 02:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 63
A
age67 Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
The hammer trick usuall works. Remove starter and give it a good cleaning. Besides solenoid sticking as stated the brushes will sometimes stick thesir holders and a tap with a hammer will dislodge them.
Eddie <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


'88 Dodge Raider 2.6L, 5 spd.
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: age67] #1063489 09/06/13 11:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 628
geocrasher Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
The hammer trick usuall works. Remove starter and give it a good cleaning. Besides solenoid sticking as stated the brushes will sometimes stick thesir holders and a tap with a hammer will dislodge them.
Eddie <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


Eddie you are right, the hammer trick worked great and it started right up. I shut it off to see if it would start again. It did not. So, I hit it again. Started up that time. This time I left it running and moved it into the garage so that I can tear into it. I'm going to remove the starter and give it a good cleaning out and see if I can solve this problem. You said that the brushes are sticking in their holders. Do you think that's the case here? I'd rather not buy a new starter if I can repair this one. I'm flat broke right now <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


1987 Raider, 346K miles and going strong -31" tires, otherwise stock.
http://tidbitsfortechs.com/
http://actionpcs.com <-- $39 remote PC repair, guaranteed.
How to include pictures in threads on 4x4wire (Youtube video)
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: geocrasher] #1063490 09/06/13 11:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 16,227
off-roader Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Quote
Quote
The hammer trick usuall works. Remove starter and give it a good cleaning. Besides solenoid sticking as stated the brushes will sometimes stick thesir holders and a tap with a hammer will dislodge them.
Eddie <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


Eddie you are right, the hammer trick worked great and it started right up. I shut it off to see if it would start again. It did not. So, I hit it again. Started up that time. This time I left it running and moved it into the garage so that I can tear into it. I'm going to remove the starter and give it a good cleaning out and see if I can solve this problem. You said that the brushes are sticking in their holders. Do you think that's the case here? I'd rather not buy a new starter if I can repair this one. I'm flat broke right now <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


The brushes themselves are replaceable but are sometimes difficult to source although a local rebuilder will be able to rebuild a unit for probably less than the cost of a replacement one.

Alternatively buying a used on at a salvage yard would be a good last resort and is a lot cheaper than buying a replacement rebuilt unit or having yours rebuilt... although you'll be gambling with regards to how long it will last.


Off Roader
98 Montero with the Winter Package
89 Montero minty clean and reserved for overlanding trips or Cars and Coffee events
96SR (3.15:1 xcase, 35's) gone to the rust gods
96SR Build Up Thread
Old web page
Old web page
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: off-roader] #1063491 09/06/13 11:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 628
geocrasher Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Thanks Off-Roader for that information. On a whim I checked out RockAuto, and they have the brushes for about $10 + shipping. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=505570&cc=1207572

I'm going to check locally here too and see what I can come up with.

Are any special tools needed to get into the starter and replace the brushes?


1987 Raider, 346K miles and going strong -31" tires, otherwise stock.
http://tidbitsfortechs.com/
http://actionpcs.com <-- $39 remote PC repair, guaranteed.
How to include pictures in threads on 4x4wire (Youtube video)
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: geocrasher] #1063492 09/07/13 12:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
It is not likely to be the brushes. Inspect before you buy. The fsm has a length spec. Note two large screw heads flush with the motor surface. Remove with a large flat head and the brush and spring will be underneath. To test the brushes, use a set of jumper cables and the battery. Hook one cable to starter motor frame and battery -. Hook one end of the other cable to batt +, and just touch the other end to the copper stud on the starter that the truck battery + terminal was NOT connected to, the one closest to the starter motor connected to the wire that enters the motor. Starter motor should run vigorously. Take care, the motor will jump as it starts to run.

It is most likely the solenoid on the starter. There are two large copper studs on the starter, one connected to the battery via the fat cable, and one with a conductor to the motor. Internal to the solenoid, there's a moving metal core with a copper disk on the front end. When you juice the solenoid wire, the core is pulled forward by the magnetic coil in the solenoid. This does two things. One, it extends the starter gear and engages the teeth on the ring gear on the flywheel. Once this is done, as the core hits the forward end of it's travel, the copper disk comes into contact with the inner end of the two copper studs, completing the current path from battery to starter motor, and the motor spins and turns the engine over to crank it. It does it in this order so the gear is engaged before the motor spins. Due to the heavy current carried to the starter, you get arcs every time the copper disc comes into contact with the inner ends of the studs. Even thought the copper disk is made to rotate and use a newer surface for contact, over time and multiple starting events, the arcing scars build up and keep the current from flowing. Thus, you hear the starter click, but the motor does not turn.

Two fixes. One, take the solenoid apart and sand the ends of the studs and the copper disk clean and shiny. Two, buy a new solenoid, if available. One is cheaper, two is easier.

Last edited by fasteddy; 09/07/13 12:15 AM.

Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: No start, no click, but the dash lights dim in "start" position [Re: fasteddy] #1063493 09/07/13 12:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 628
geocrasher Offline OP
Rock Warrior
FastEddy,

Thank you. I'm going to dig into this today. I love this place, you guys are all so genuinely helpful, and you personally have saved my tail a couple of times. I really greatly appreciate it.


1987 Raider, 346K miles and going strong -31" tires, otherwise stock.
http://tidbitsfortechs.com/
http://actionpcs.com <-- $39 remote PC repair, guaranteed.
How to include pictures in threads on 4x4wire (Youtube video)
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