Extreme Terrain
4x4Wire Trail Talk Forums: Jeep, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pajero, Isuzu, Kia, 4WD, 4x4, SUV, Off-Road and OutdoorWire Forums


Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
De Dion Front "SAS"? #1063745 09/08/13 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 899
F
Fujisawa_Rob Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Brainstorming...what if the entire IFS assembly was mounted in a ridgid frame (along the lines of Atomic Axles), with the control arms fixed in position? Then the whole setup is coil sprung. Would allow a high-clearance front axle. There's something called a De Dion suspension that uses a beam axle and a separate drivetrain assembly, sort of like this.


2000 Mitsubishi Montero Endeavor, "Katsumi", 138k
1993 Toyota Tercel, backup vehicle, 93k
1989 Isuzu Trooper, "Beniko", R.I.P. at 233k

My 'Genuine Isuzu Parts' decals - for sale
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: Fujisawa_Rob] #1063746 09/09/13 12:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
I have never seen a de Dion on the front. The usual layout is the hubs connected by a rigid frame so they are always parallel, with a frame mounted diff and cv axles. Some form of hub location must be used to retain fore/aft hub location. The primary advantage is reduction of unsprung weight (the diff). There is a risk of overrunning the angle limit of the cv axles in an offroad vehicle.

If I understand you corresctly, you are spring mounting the whole IFS. You have a really large unsprung weight that way. I see no real advantage over sas, Now, if the original a arms were still functioning, you'd have more front travel, but would have to have some spring suspension on the a arms (coil overs?) and two sets of shocks, and on and on and on.

Last edited by fasteddy; 09/09/13 12:24 AM.

Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: fasteddy] #1063747 09/09/13 12:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,511
ryany Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Since the existing Montero IFS already has the rigidly mounted differential, there's little to be gained as far as unsprung weight goes, which is the primary advantage of a DeDion suspension design. What I think you're suggesting is some sort of suspended subframe, which would increase the unsprung weight without any benefit to the suspension geometry or travel over a well-designed IFS.

If it's never been done by any auto manufacturer, there's probably a good reason - either the complexity or the expense of the design makes it unrealistic. Usually this means that better results can be obtained with a more commonly existing design. I'm not discouraging thinking outside the box, but when it comes to off-road suspensions, I don't think there are many possible designs that haven't already been tried. If you want the ultimate in an off-road suspension, look to the vehicles that are built to compete in whatever format you're thinking of using your vehicle for (rock-crawling, desert racing, rallying, etc). The winning vehicles in those arenas will have the best suspension designs for what they are trying to accomplish.


95 Montero SR
3.8 MIVEC, Advance headers, 2 1/2" exhaust, Magnaflow muffler, OME shocks & rear springs, 2" body lift, 3" tank lift, 4.90s, TRE front locker, factory rear locker, Roger Brown Rock Sliderz, 315/75r16 (35") tires, Sport big brakes
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: Fujisawa_Rob] #1063748 09/09/13 03:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 391
dannytuned Offline
Mudrunner
Like this? From here.

[Linked Image]


2001Sport 3.0-Headers-Cage-RoofChop-NP231/D300-D44/ARB-Ford9/Yukon/3Link-37's+H1's-PSC Assist-108:1
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: dannytuned] #1063749 09/09/13 02:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 899
F
Fujisawa_Rob Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Do check out the Atomic Axles housing. I can't believe the price they want for it! Basically it's an inverted-Vee enclosing IFS-style CV axles, with D60 knuckles.


2000 Mitsubishi Montero Endeavor, "Katsumi", 138k
1993 Toyota Tercel, backup vehicle, 93k
1989 Isuzu Trooper, "Beniko", R.I.P. at 233k

My 'Genuine Isuzu Parts' decals - for sale
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: dannytuned] #1063750 09/09/13 02:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 899
F
Fujisawa_Rob Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
Like this? From here.

[Linked Image]


I'll have to view it at home, work blocks Photobucket.


2000 Mitsubishi Montero Endeavor, "Katsumi", 138k
1993 Toyota Tercel, backup vehicle, 93k
1989 Isuzu Trooper, "Beniko", R.I.P. at 233k

My 'Genuine Isuzu Parts' decals - for sale
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: dannytuned] #1063751 09/09/13 11:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 899
F
Fujisawa_Rob Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Wow, that Yota has one crazy setup! I used to have one of those actually, an 89, but it was a 4x2. Very solid vans.

What I envisioned was sort of like that but the assembly would be rigid and suspended from springs.


2000 Mitsubishi Montero Endeavor, "Katsumi", 138k
1993 Toyota Tercel, backup vehicle, 93k
1989 Isuzu Trooper, "Beniko", R.I.P. at 233k

My 'Genuine Isuzu Parts' decals - for sale
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: Fujisawa_Rob] #1063752 09/10/13 12:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,458
rxinhed Offline
Trail Leader
*****
Regarding the Toyota Van...what's the point? All the work needed for that, just put in a solid axle and be done. If you want this for lift alone, or ride quality, how about IFS like a desert racer? Otherwise I think I'm missing the point.

Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: rxinhed] #1063753 09/10/13 01:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 628
geocrasher Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote
Regarding the Toyota Van...what's the point? All the work needed for that, just put in a solid axle and be done. If you want this for lift alone, or ride quality, how about IFS like a desert racer? Otherwise I think I'm missing the point.


You aren't alone.


1987 Raider, 346K miles and going strong -31" tires, otherwise stock.
http://tidbitsfortechs.com/
http://actionpcs.com <-- $39 remote PC repair, guaranteed.
How to include pictures in threads on 4x4wire (Youtube video)
Re: De Dion Front "SAS"? [Re: geocrasher] #1063754 09/10/13 01:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,511
ryany Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Seconded...


95 Montero SR
3.8 MIVEC, Advance headers, 2 1/2" exhaust, Magnaflow muffler, OME shocks & rear springs, 2" body lift, 3" tank lift, 4.90s, TRE front locker, factory rear locker, Roger Brown Rock Sliderz, 315/75r16 (35") tires, Sport big brakes
Page 1 of 2 1 2







4x4Wire Social:

| 4x4Wire on FaceBook |


OutdoorWire, 4x4Wire, JeepWire, TrailTalk, MUIRNet-News, and 4x4Voice are all trademarks and publications of OutdoorWire, Inc. and MUIRNet Consulting.
Copyright (c) 1999-2019 OutdoorWire, Inc and MUIRNet Consulting - All Rights Reserved, no part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without express written permission
You may link freely to this site, but no further use is allowed without the express written permission of the owner of this material.
All corporate trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.006s Queries: 16 (0.003s) Memory: 0.6378 MB (Peak: 0.7632 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2026-06-22 16:17:45 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS