My government's policy has put me, whether I agree with it or not, somewhat outside this debate....having said that my prayers are with the guys who are putting themselves on the line, and for those who are inadvertently caught in the cross-fire.

But as Doug alluded to, personal attacks are unacceptable on this board, PERIOD. If you don't like someone's opinion, counter it with intelligent debate - name-calling is not optional. Jason started this thread as a bit of comic-relief - if you can't resist bashing someone instead, do it elsewhere please. I hear VMag/KII allows that sort of thing... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This belongs in "Mitsu Talk", but we certainly have mitigating circumstances today. Let's just hope its over quickly, and as painlessly as possible.

Don't force me to lock this down. I hate doing that. <img border="0" alt="[Mr.T]" title="" src="graemlins/mrt.gif" />

Take care guys,
PHIL

I apologize (but i don't take back) for my "personal attack" comments. You are correct, Phil. It isn't fit for this forum. I'm tired of trying to get through to these people anyway.

But for or against: It has begun. God bless America, and all who stand with her.

All too typical. Because I dont think this war is going to do the US any good and furthermore will undoubtably unleash an animal we have no idea how to handle makes me a liberal/socialist? As a matter of reference to get you out of the tunnel vision you find yourself in: I am a registered Republican, have voted Republican since I was of age, went to arguably the most conservative university in the US, grew up in a staunch conservative, Christian household. I haven't blown off the values I was imparted with. I cherish them obviously more than you. Doesnt mean I am more or less American than you, being one is 100% priviledge - none of us deserve what we've been blessed with here in the USA. I'm just not ignorantly going to follow a party line cuz that's what I was brought up in or in general adhere to.

Your ignorance of history and rearrangement of fact is what troubles me about the whole Ra Ra Republican crowd. Name me one nation that has gone down the path of imperialism that still exists today as it did in its original glory. Or exists at all for that matter. As far as International Law and the legality of this attack is concerned - thats what this whole international bickering is about!

You stand corrected yet again my freind, and still nothing REASONABLE to say?

P.S. Phil, I think this complies with your directive. Let me know if I'm off track.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: bretwalda ]</small>

I can't believe I got into this stupid debate with you. There isn't enough time in the day to respond further.

<small>[ March 20, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: mrGUY ]</small>

This is hopeless mrGuy. I honestly had no intention of insulting you. I guess that proves the intillectual level this has spiraled to. Just wanted some real debate of which you have proven to be completely incapable of. This obviously cant go much further with you insisting everything coming from me is an untruth. For the record, I never accused you of calling me a democrat. You did call me a liberal/socialist. I provided a little background that anyone with reasonable sense could decipher that I'm not.

The true anti-American sentiment becomes all too obvious when those that post more than an "Amen" to your ranting are told that they "deserve none of the rights that so many have died preserving for you". Not only are statements like that anti-American, they're scary.

The fact that Bush Jr. has thrown to the wind the international goodwill that was bestowed on us after 9/11, signed off many of our most important liberties, as well as demolished the foreign relationships that took DECADES for our former, greater Republican Presidents to build may be of little consequence to you, but they concern me and many others who personally would like to see that our freedoms are preserved as the constitution provides, and our integrity with our neighbor nations secured so we can all live in peace.

If being outnumbered makes my opinion wrong, well I guess you win mrGUY.

P.S. For our friends on this forum who have family and friends over there now my prayers are with them for a swift victory and safe return home.

...nice, apparently there's enough time in the day to do some deleting and changing of your posts, what other cheap tricks will you use to make your point?

<small>[ March 20, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: bretwalda ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans"> I guess you win mrGUY. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Whoo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!! Mr Guy wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But wait Bretwalda, there's still a chance for you to change your post so you can win!!!! Don't delay, act now!!!!

bretwalda,

I am so very happy you are so very comfortable with your opinions. I wish you and yours the very best.

Have a great day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by bretwalda:
<strong>All too typical. Because I dont think this war is going to do the US any good and furthermore will undoubtably unleash an animal we have no idea how to handle makes me a liberal/socialist? As a matter of reference to get you out of the tunnel vision you find yourself in: I am a registered Republican, have voted Republican since I was of age, went to arguably the most conservative university in the US, grew up in a staunch conservative, Christian household. I haven't blown off the values I was imparted with. I cherish them obviously more than you. Doesnt mean I am more or less American than you, being one is 100% priviledge - none of us deserve what we've been blessed with here in the USA. I'm just not ignorantly going to follow a party line cuz that's what I was brought up in or in general adhere to.

Your ignorance of history and rearrangement of fact is what troubles me about the whole Ra Ra Republican crowd. Name me one nation that has gone down the path of imperialism that still exists today as it did in its original glory. Or exists at all for that matter. As far as International Law and the legality of this attack is concerned - thats what this whole international bickering is about!

You stand corrected yet again my freind, and still nothing REASONABLE to say?

P.S. Phil, I think this complies with your directive. Let me know if I'm off track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">OK. I don't get a lot of time where I can follow and respond in an active debate, but I will jump in here for the sake of our country and spreading the message of Conservatism.

You said: Doesnt mean I am more or less American than you, being one is 100% priviledge - none of us deserve what we've been blessed with here in the USA.

I say: You are only partially correct here. Yes, this country exists in it's current state of freedom because of the Grace of God. However, many folks have contributed to preserving this country by either fighting to maintain this freedom or vigorously protecting our freedom by raising our children to value the freedom and liberties that we have today. It's kind of like the story about the preacher who takes some barren land and, by the Grace of God and hard work, builds a church and a beautiful campus for the church. Another preacher comes to visit and says, "Wow, look what God has done here!" The preacher, with tongue in cheek responds, "are you kidding? You should have seen it before I got here and He had it by himself!"

The moral of the story is that yes, America was created by the Grace of God, but it is protected every day by a partnership between God and his people who want to preserve the country by honoring Him.

You said: Name me one nation that has gone down the path of imperialism that still exists today as it did in its original glory. Or exists at all for that matter.

I say: Sure, I'd be glad to. The United States of America. If you are saying that we will be brought down by our imperialistic tendencies, I say you are wrong. We will use our awesome power to bring any nation that harbors terrorists or sponsors terrorism to their knees. After they are vanquished, we will help rebuild a nation with freedom and liberty for the people. Look at Germany, Japan and South Korea for examples. If you have access to good sources in Afghanistan, you will find that businesses are thriving there now... and more growth is expected in the future. We will do the same in Iraq. We will do the same wherever necessary until there are no countries left that are willing to harbor or sponsor terrorism. I never cease to be amazed at the entrepeneurial spirit of a free man/woman. Some of us have forgotten how blessed we are to have the liberty and freedom we have in America. New immigrants do and they show it every day by working hard and succeeding. New freedom in these countries will foster this same entrepeneurship and new patriots who will fight to preserve this newfound freedom.

You said: As far as International Law and the legality of this attack is concerned - thats what this whole international bickering is about!

I say: Let 'em bicker all they want. The United Nations was founded after WWII and one of it's purposes was to prevent evil dictators from gaining power and committing evil atrocities. (ie. Adolf Hitler as example) The UN recognize Saddam Hussein as one of these evil dictators. They condemned his actions in three resolutions that are still in effect. The latest version being 1441. (I think the others were 678 and 876 if I remember correctly) There was a unanimous vote to support 1441 which said that we would give Saddam one last chance to disarm and, if he failed to do so, there would be serious consequences. France, Germany and Russia failed to follow through on this resolution. Bush and Powell tried to get the UN to follow through but France refused to follow through and threatened to veto any new resolutions supporting force. You are now seeing the US and UK following through. Many other nations now endorse this action. The count of nations publicly supporting the action is now at 40.

Time will tell. Let's come back to this debate after Saddam is gone, the Iraqi people are free and it's safer to be an American.

Powell

P.S. - If you don't see a reply from me right away, it's not because I don't have a response... I just don't have a lot of free time to post rebuttals.

Oh, and one other comment. For you folks who were bashing MrGUY for coming after you. If war ever comes to our soil, you'll be wishing you had a pitbull like MrGUY on your side! You pissed him off, so he bit... I've known him up here for awhile and he's a good guy. He sent me some parts for my truck one time for free... he didn't really know me from Adam.

Powell