</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by bretwalda:
<strong>This is hopeless mrGuy. I honestly had no intention of insulting you. I guess that proves the intillectual level this has spiraled to. Just wanted some real debate of which you have proven to be completely incapable of. This obviously cant go much further with you insisting everything coming from me is an untruth. For the record, I never accused you of calling me a democrat. You did call me a liberal/socialist. I provided a little background that anyone with reasonable sense could decipher that I'm not.

The true anti-American sentiment becomes all too obvious when those that post more than an "Amen" to your ranting are told that they "deserve none of the rights that so many have died preserving for you". Not only are statements like that anti-American, they're scary.

The fact that Bush Jr. has thrown to the wind the international goodwill that was bestowed on us after 9/11, signed off many of our most important liberties, as well as demolished the foreign relationships that took DECADES for our former, greater Republican Presidents to build may be of little consequence to you, but they concern me and many others who personally would like to see that our freedoms are preserved as the constitution provides, and our integrity with our neighbor nations secured so we can all live in peace.

If being outnumbered makes my opinion wrong, well I guess you win mrGUY.

P.S. For our friends on this forum who have family and friends over there now my prayers are with them for a swift victory and safe return home.

...nice, apparently there's enough time in the day to do some deleting and changing of your posts, what other cheap tricks will you use to make your point?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Bret,

You said: The fact that Bush Jr. has thrown to the wind the international goodwill that was bestowed on us after 9/11.

I say: Please elaborate? He was very thankful and appreciative of the international goodwill. He's invited many of the countries to visit. We continue to offer humanitarian aid to many countries throughout the world. Even some that didn't support us.

You said: ...signed off many of our most important liberties

I say: Please be specific here. I agree that we should be very careful balancing increased homeland security vs. loss of liberties. However, I don't mind taking my shoes off at the airport. I don't mind getting a wand massage with my arms and legs spread as long as the security person is a good looking woman... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You said: .. as well as demolished the foreign relationships that took DECADES for our former, greater Republican Presidents to build may be of little consequence to you, but they concern me and many others who personally would like to see that our freedoms are preserved as the constitution provides,

I say: We haven't demolished foreign relationships. We gave up on the UN in the name of national security. Now other nations are respecting our decision and are joining the coalition. End result? The UN has failed in its mission. They have lost face. This is their own doing not ours. If they had followed through by backing up 1441 with a united front against Saddam, there is a good chance we wouldn't be fighting this war today. They empowered Saddam by waffling for 12 years. We waffled with them until 9/11. Never again. We are preserving our American way of life by fighting a war on terror. If we follow through, our children and grand-children will have a better chance to exercise the freedom we have today.

You said: ... integrity with our neighbor nations secured so we can all live in peace.

I say: We are not punishing our neighbor nations that don't back our war on terror. We're punishing only those leaders that choose to sponsor terror. We certainly will call a spade a spade... such as explaining why we stopped pursuing UN backing. I know we must disagree on this point, but when there is evil in the world (always is) and you identify a source of evil, you don't make peace with evil through smothering them with goodwill or looking for common ground. You fight for good, vanquish the evil, destroy their ability to wage evil and then you have peace. We have peace with Japan... we consider them our number two best ally next to Great Britain. They support our actions in Iraq and have even offered to help. Wait a minute? Weren't they our mortal enemy? Didn't they destroy the Pacific fleet in 1941? How did we get peace with them and now have them as an ally? We fought a war. We conquered Japan. We destroyed their ability to wage war. We crushed their willingness to fight. We rebuilt their country and gave them a constitution similar to ours that eventually gave them the freedom to elect their own leaders and now they are a peaceful nation. Germany is a friend and fellow NATO ally. Yes, we have our disagreements, but we still consider them an ally. Wait a minute? Isn't this the nation led by an evil dictator that slaughtered 6 million jews and many other people? Isn't this the country that wanted to conquer all of Europe? How can this be? We fought a war. We crushed our enemy. We destroyed their ability to wage war. We rebuilt the country and gave them a constitution like ours and now they are a powerful nation and an ally. Peace exists when there is a powerful deterrant to doing evil.

Powell