I was wondering how the 22R to 22RE, 5M-GE, 7M-GE, 3.4, or 4.3 swaps stacked up against each other. I think performance and reliablility are pretty obvious, but what about ease of installation and overall price? I wouldn't mind keeping a 22R, but the ones I've seen locally are usually about three times the cost of a 4.3. I'd like to go the route of a supra engine, which one is preferred? Any cost estimates?

Thanks, John

Supra engine preferred is the 7M-GTE (the turbo engine) it was offered from like...86-92 or something like that. Can easily & cheaply be made to put out 300-400 hp. The EASIEST swap, if you have an auto and v6, is the 3.4L. That is probably the one I will be getting done myself. The reason I bought a toyota is so I could have the whole toyota reliability thing, and if you switch to a chevy/ford engine you don't get that. Also I would be wary of the 7mgte, even though it is a toyota, and probably a good engine, ... getting a turbo rebuilt is pretty costly, and it's a performance engine, and probably more likely to break down under hard use, especially on a trail or soemthing.

Well I beg to differ on the reliability of a Ford. My dad's 88 Stang with a 5.0 has 23?,??? miles, 3 of my friends have over 270,000 miles on their Stangs. I can't comment on reliability in my Stang since I just built my engine 5 years ago so it doesn't have but 54,??? miles on it. I too bought a Toyota for reliability but I've had nothing but problems from my gutless 22RE and the 5.0 swap is looking better and cheaper all the time since I do still have a complete spare engine and an extra blower sitting in the garage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by MexicanBandit:
<strong>The EASIEST swap, if you have an auto and v6, is the 3.4L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">HUH? I think you are incorrect, my friend. Easiest swap is a 3.4 in front of a 5-speed. Much different animal than putting it in front of an older auto - you'd have to hack into the auto's computer to get it to work well w/ the 3.4...

Second easiest - 4.3. Done this twice. ALL of the parts are available OTC and while not cheap, they make it very easy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by rockota:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by MexicanBandit:
<strong>The EASIEST swap, if you have an auto and v6, is the 3.4L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">HUH? I think you are incorrect, my friend. Easiest swap is a 3.4 in front of a 5-speed. Much different animal than putting it in front of an older auto - you'd have to hack into the auto's computer to get it to work well w/ the 3.4...

Second easiest - 4.3. Done this twice. ALL of the parts are available OTC and while not cheap, they make it very easy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Second easiest a 4.3? How long does it take you to do this swap?

I would have to say the 7MGE would be the easiest. No special adapters, practically a drop in for a 22R. So cheap too. Although I would prefer the turbo myself.

Timewise, I have got it down to less than 24 hours with the turbo. And that was 6 hours spent on wiring. That was turnkey, and drive. Now that I have the proper diagram, I plan on 12-18 hours for my next one.

7MGTE cost = around $2,000 if you do the work yourself

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: SuperRunner ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by SuperRunner:
<strong>Second easiest a 4.3? How long does it take you to do this swap?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Never really timed it... But it can be done w/ no welding, and not painful wiring issues if someone is willing to pay. I should state, I'm talking 4.3 TBI, not CPI or TPI.

AA has all of the pieces to bolt this in place w/o even moving the transmission. NWOR has some really good bolt in motor mounts, Downey some good headers. Howell has a harness. All you really need (which you do in ANY swap) is a header back exhaust system and three wire hookups (starter, coil, tach.... Oil and temp use existing wiring).

NO swap is easy, but having done a 3.8 and 2 4.3's (in the same truck - different motor mounts, tranny mounts, exhaust, etc etc), it's not a hard swap.

See, that is what I am saying. With the 7M, no adapters, no welding. All bolt in. And yes, wiring isn't hard....If you want to pay. Even if you don't pay, wiring isn't that hard. And after I get a program to do a schematic, I will post the wiring diagram. Wiring will even be easier. On a 22RE system, no extra relays, or switches required. Truck doesn't even know it has a different motor, until you stomp on the gas. Wieght is about the same as a 22R.

And the best part of all......You stay toyota. I still just don't understand why poeple would want to put in a 4.3. No longer toyota at heart, and ouch...that has to hurt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

I talked to a guy that had just finished a 4.3 swap. He was very proud of the power the swap gave him. I then told him about my swap. He was wanting to race me because he KNEW he would waste me. Was quite cocky about it too. I was doing some changes on my suspension, so mine wasn't drivable at the time. Anyway, later that week I brought over my 4runner. Just for kicks, I pulled the front wheels off the ground for him. He quickly backed out on the race. He wasn't so proud of his swap anymore. He deserved though, he was really kind of a jerk.

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: SuperRunner ]</small>

I will start by saying I have never done an engine swap, but all the engines you mentioned, I would have to say the 3.4 would be easiest. It will bolt to either the auto or 5 speed (you will need a 3.4 from a 5 speed donor if you want to run a 5 speed) and you can buy a wiring harness to get the thing running. Disadvantage is supposedly you need a 2" body lift.

The 7M-GTE is most desireable for many reasons. An inline-6 is one of only three engine designs that is inherently balanced due to its design (the rotary and a V12 are the others), the engine itself is much simpler than a "V" design, the engine is *way* overbuilt to handle lots of boost (oil squirters to cool the bottoms of the pistons, two oil coolers, dual knock sensors, etc.) and makes far more power in stock trim than any of the engines you mentioned. 232 hp and 254 lb. feet of torque. I have a MKIII Supra with this motor and IT DOES make tons of torque down low. Add a full 3" exhaust and a K&N air filter and two washers under the wastegate and you'll be making over 300 hp and somewhere around 335 ft lbs. (Search for my other threads about modifying this engine.)

Disadvantage is you need to be able to do some custom work yourself. You will likely need to run electric fans due to space issues and you'll need to find a place to mount the intercooler. (Seems to me it might fit behind an IFS skid plate.) Torque the cylinder head bolts from 58 ft. lbs to 72 ft. lbs and have fun!

BTW, a friend of mine has a 4.3 in their pickup and is installing one in his rock buggy. After helping me work on the Supra (and especially after driving it) he wishes he would have bought a 7M.

I was under the impression that the 7M-GTE won't fit with IFS. Every install of that installation I've seen has been on trucks with SAS.

Just to throw in another option. How about the 3.0 4 cylinder turbo diesel that was offered in the second gen body style overseas? I'm sure some of the guys from Australia or NZ can give us info - plus diesel gets metter mileage, make more torque, and would definately give you the coolest truck on the block. If I'm not mistaken it will bolt directly to the driveline with no mods.

There's an IFS rig on Off-Road.com that has a 7M-GE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />