OK, I may be way off the mark here, but I noticed something interesting when comparing people with ping to people that have never heard a ping before. Phil, Jeff, and Mike K. have all claimed ZERO pinging where Ron and James and many others can easily duplicate the problem. If I understand the nature of the ping correctly, it happens most frequently when there are high torque demands at low RPM's, (e.g. accelerating in high gear). Now if you look at Phil's, Jeff's and Mike's trucks, you'll notice that they all have lockers. Lockers = 4.30 gears (for autos at least). This means at any given speed, their engines will be revving faster than those with 4.10 gears, which reduces the chance for ping. It also means that there is less torque load on the engine since it's a higher gear ratio. Now, I'm not claiming this is the main problem, but I have a feeling it plays an important role in the ping 'coin toss'. Once again, this is just a theory, so please go easy on me Ron I've seen what you've done to Roger numerous times <P>take care,<BR>phong<P>------------------<BR><B>2000 4Runner Highlander SR5 4WD</B><BR><A HREF="http://members.home.net/malice1/" TARGET=_blank>My Webpage</A><BR>ICQ: 1010567<BR>AOL/AIM: Malice9999

Now that is a well thought out therory and it does make sense. That is an interesting observation.<P>Now all you need to do is to poll people and see how many people with lockers and a SC experience the ping and how many don't. You need a much grater sampling, but you might be onto something.<P>Gadget<BR> <A HREF="http://www.GadgetOnline.com" TARGET=_blank>www.GadgetOnline.com</A>

Ah, it's nice to hear a sound theory <P>I've got the locker w/ 4.3 gears, but I can induce the pinging about half the time at the 60MPH/2000RPM range.<P>------------------<BR><B>Ken</B><BR><A HREF="http://students.washington.edu/kaibaun/" TARGET=_blank>My '99 Highlander SX</A><p>[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 24 November 2000).]

Great idea, Phong, but there's a catch to that observation. My 4Runner can't quite be applied to your observation only because I'm at somewhat high altitude, which has lower air density. So I'm unlikely to be able to get pinging in the first place. So I think you need to include each owner's typical altitude in those observations.<P>I had some "vibrations" in the dash at a certain engine rpm, but I think I've narrowed that down to a slightly bent custom skidplate. I need to hammer it or bend it further away from the transmission now. Dang it, another discovery of damage from 21 Road.<P>Now Phil, on the other hand, is near sea level with 33's and the supercharger. It requires more torque to turn the 33's and defeats the nice low gear ratio. Come to think of it, I'd expect Phil to be near pinging.<P>------------------<BR>Jeff<BR><A HREF="http://www.trailseeker.com/4x4/mods/4runner/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>2000 4Runner Highlander</A><BR>mods: TRD supercharger, 285/75R16 MT/R's, Fabtech/Fox 2" lift, All-Pro Rocker Guards, Rockstomper skidplates

I think it is all part of the picture. Unfortunately, I have run across people with the locker that ping as well. I do think the 4.3 rear will certainly help the automatic keep in a better rev range, but in comparing with the manual, your 4th is more of an overdrive than the manual 5th so the manual most likely highway cruises at a higher rpm than you even with the shorter rear gear.<P>I am sorry you think I have been mean to Roger. It has never been intentional. Everyone of Roger's ideas has had significant merit, it is just that the ping problem encompasses so many variables that it is impossible to apply one answer or fix unilaterally and may involve a multisystem approach for any truck with the problem.<P>------------------<BR>Ron<P><BR><A HREF="http://members.gcronline.com/rsherow/" TARGET=_blank>My Web Page</A> <BR> sherowsky@gcronline.com <BR>97 4Runner SR5, 5spd, SC, and other mods<BR>00 RAV4

Hey Phong, that sounds feasible, but I have the factory locker w/4.3. I have smaller diameter tires, (.5" smaller than stock) if that might help in contributing to your theory.<P>-James-<BR><P>------------------<BR>1999 4runner ltd. 4wd<BR>trd s/c, trd headers, greddy catback, akimoto intake sys., anteras, etc..<BR>Homepage coming soon

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron S:<BR><B>I think it is all part of the picture. Unfortunately, I have run across people with the locker that ping as well. I do think the 4.3 rear will certainly help the automatic keep in a better rev range, but in comparing with the manual, your 4th is more of an overdrive than the manual 5th so the manual most likely highway cruises at a higher rpm than you even with the shorter rear gear.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ron, I don't suppose any of this interests you anymore since you're getting rid of the truck. But I see what you mean about the many factors that can contribute to the ping. You say manuals have a higher final drive ratio as opposed to automatics, but then there's the torque converter to take into account. I'm not gonna even bother persuing this since Ken's and James's posts both nullified my theory <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><HR><P>I am sorry you think I have been mean to Roger. It has never been intentional. Everyone of Roger's ideas has had significant merit, it is just that the ping problem encompasses so many variables that it is impossible to apply one answer or fix unilaterally and may involve a multisystem approach for any truck with the problem.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ron, don't apologize. Those posts have been both educational and entertaining, which are two words that are usually not in the same sentence. I hope you stick around even after you sell the truck to keep Roger on his toes <P>take care,<BR>phong<P>------------------<BR><B>2000 4Runner Highlander SR5 4WD</B><BR><A HREF="http://members.home.net/malice1/" TARGET=_blank>My Webpage</A><BR>ICQ: 1010567<BR>AOL/AIM: Malice9999

FYI:<P>Ping occurs when there is detonation present in a combustion engine. ( trust me... I know this from experience ) To eliminate ping, fuel enrichment, timing control, and ignition spark must all be carefully tailored. In production run S/C kits, such as the 2nd Generation 4Runner kit, many variables exist which can adversely affect performance, not to mention the outside variables such as weather, vehicle gross weight, other modifications, gear ratios, load ratios, a/f ratios, etc, etc... locking down what causes the pinging is what's important, and importantly hard as well... my experience with pinging in any vehicle has been related to the quality of fuel ( octane ) and the thoroughness of the tuning. a/f ratios, etc... ) Keep this in mind when you start searching for the " common " problem... it's more likely to be a few common problems than one.<P>Jason<BR><P>------------------<BR>Electrical Computeer Engineer<BR>Owner,R&D Development Engineer, Advanced Racing Technologies, LLC<BR>1996 SR5<BR>2nd Gen. TRD S/C<BR>TRD Headers<BR>TRD Exhaust<BR>1.5" Downey Spacers ( front )<BR>2.0" Grizzly Spacers ( rear )<BR>OME Lift<BR>ARB Bull Bar<BR>Warn Winch<BR>Custom Powdercoated Surco Rack<BR>LOTS OF LIGHTS<BR>BIG STEREO

my 2 cents...<P>As for my "ping" issues, I do/did have some. I have noticed with my 4Runner that the more driving on the highway that I do the less trouble I have with the dreaded "ping". I have even less instances of "pinging" after towing the boat. <BR>So I've noticed that the ping happens less when the ECU has made some slight adjustments due to driving conditions or even habits. fyi, I always leave my ECT on and when not on the freeway I turn my OD off.<P>I get my DSL @ Home on Monday finally after an 8 month wait So you'll see me around a bit more.<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://members.home.net/mjkapash/" TARGET=_blank>My 1999 Toyota 4Runner "TRD Highlander SX" Web Site</A>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phong:<BR><B> Ron, don't apologize. Those posts have been both educational and entertaining, which are two words that are usually not in the same sentence. I hope you stick around even after you sell the truck to keep Roger on his toes <P>take care,<BR>phong<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You can almost discount the stock torque converter. It has even less multiplication than I originally posted. It is around 1.1:1. Clearly the stock automatic is set for fuel economy and not performance.<P>I have not sold the runner yet and will not trade it for nothing even if Edmunds and Kelly say it is next to worthless(I know, major exaggeration). With around $11,000 in modifications, I have no intention of just giving it away. It has been unadvertised for sale for the past year. Meaning not really for sale, but if anyone asked they were quoted a price of $28,000. I have had two seriously interested parties and one maybe. Both of the two seriously interested parties had no idea of how to care for a modified vehicle and would be totally lost if anything nonstock needed service. They were both educated as to what owning a modified vehicle entailed and I told them I would feel uncomfotable selling to either. One withdrew the offer and the other would be literally selling everything she owned to buy it and still doesn't understand that she cannot just run to the local Toyota dealer to have everything fixed if needed, yet doesn't want it returned to stock. I just cannot in good conscience sell it to her.<P>My current plans are to just hang on to it, but if any one asks about buying it, drop the asking price to $25,000--still a very good deal for anyone that would be contemplating doing similar modfications, as it only has 9000 miles and will probably add miles at an even slower pace as my general interest in it gradually fades. I fortunately have no financial need to get rid of it and still will tinker on it from time to time with a few minor changes still contemplated, but just not at the prior pace or level. I honestly don't know if I am truly ready to let it go even if the price was met by a person that understood what he/she was getting. It would just depend on my thought process at the time. I guess that is why I don't advertise it.<P><P>------------------<BR>Ron<P><BR><A HREF="http://members.gcronline.com/rsherow/" TARGET=_blank>My Web Page</A> <BR> sherowsky@gcronline.com <BR>97 4Runner SR5, 5spd, SC, and other mods<BR>00 RAV4