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*I will take a swing... [Re: zephyr] #356422 12/03/03 06:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,576
engnbldr Offline
Roll Me Over
*****
>>>*Well, I will stick to the basics, and assume the systems are all working.

Now first, let's understand that it is possible to make an infinite number of cam grinds, all different, with the exact same "specs". This is because the actual lobe timing matters, lift and duration are almost completely meaningless.

We can actually change how much the valve is open at partial lift, without changing the total lift or duration, so that becomes a partial lift change, and we have a completely different profile.

Then add in that this one change, by it's nature, flows into the next nanosecond of the cycle, (otherwise it makes loud noises and breaks stuff...) and we end up with a massively different camshaft. *Yep, same lift and duration...(I am giving up some "almost" secrets here....*LOL**)

Manufacturers give that total lift/duration spec for a comparison, it means small, medium, and large, and versions of each..Yes, they sell what sells, not necesarily what works best...

So going by the basic assumption that all systems are working and properly set, I say your camshaft is running late. The reason I say this is because almost ALL small companies use a single lobe grinder. To save base circle, they set up an indicator and "feel" for the point of maximum lift.
(Of course, on a Toyota, the point of max lift isn't where one thinks it is.)
So to do it right, the camshaft MUST be indexed off the dowel pin..Hopefully THAT is in the right place, I have one on my desk that is 120? off...just to remind me to check, check again, and recheck...human beings make this stuff, you see..

*Now THAT means that when working with brand new cam grinds, we get to throw away one out of 20, because they can't be ground to spec at all. *You don't think a new cam, a casting, is actually straight, do you?...*LOL**..

Hold on, it gets worse..The temptation for the grinder is to save that $50 new core, and move the cam a little, setup @ say, somewhere around 1? to 3?. If all is new, not a big problem, moves the powerband a few hundred RPM..

*One can have a lot of fun with a Buddy by moving a couple of things when he isn't looking, and we turn his "Kicks him right in the Hanes @ 3000 RPM" into a "Starts and never stops pulling"..*Drives them nuts, they know darn good and well everything is the same...*LOL** (Hi Darin..heehee)

Shave the head/block, stick on a cam that is already 2? late, and OOPS! Been there, done that and learned from it...*LOL**..

The result is poor performance, a fairly smooth running engine, but no power, lousy gas mileage, and irritation because of all the work and hardearned gone and no result.
Really maddening because it "sounds" nice and throaty, (burning gasses going poppoppop in the manifold, released out of time...)

A late cam doesn't get the cylinder filled properly, (well it does OK at crank speed, but not running)...*Time and mass and velocity get involved and I have to start thinking so don't ask, just know it's true..

A late cam also dumps the burning gasses out the exhaust, if it is WAY too late, the thing might even glow, but if it is WAY rich, it will just run poorly.

The 02 senser reads that as extra Oxygen, and thinks you are lean, so it richens the mixture. Then to keep from setting off that check engine light, the computer will move timing to the best EMISSIONS position, and it doesn't care about power..

To make it shorter, I will bet a stale can of Bud that if I was to send you an advanced crank gear, the thing will wake up some..and maybe a BUNCH!

*Free if you want to do a test, email me...

*Messing with the AFM is called a screwup...*LOL**..(.*Sorry.)...*EB

[Linked Image]


*Beats the he** outa me!....*LOL**...
Re: *I will take a swing... [Re: engnbldr] #356423 12/03/03 08:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,688
Esquire812 Offline
Trail Leader
*Okay, figured I had better put the computer back together and see how my buddy zephyr was doing on here...I see this

"One can have a lot of fun with a Buddy by moving a couple of things when he isn't looking, and we turn his "Kicks him right in the Hanes @ 3000 RPM" into a "Starts and never stops pulling"..*Drives them nuts, they know darn good and well everything is the same...*LOL** (Hi Darin..heehee)"

and have been scratching my melon for the last 5 minutes. Kathie just came out and asked why I had a dumb look on my face. LOL Shut up and eat your cheesecake honey. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Zephyr, I would definately take EB up on his offer if I were you. I had the lower gear in my hand back in Oct, didnt quite here what he said and put it back in the box. Week later he learned I put it back...stupid kid anyways. lol
Hell, I could prolly even be convinced to come down and play "we is fixing stuff" and get greasy with ya! lol Actually the cam gear is a quick swap without major tear down.
And again, just to reaffirm my position on the subject like EB did, DONT EVER TOUCH THE AFM! But you and I have discussed this one before right??....Zephyr? lol
Let me know when ya wanna play.
~Darin <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />


88' 4x4 *22R-EB Gen II*
87' $Runner *22R-EB Gen I*
85' Sillyca 22R-Esq

"I LIVE IN MY OWN WORLD...THEY KNOW ME WELL THERE"
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