well i installed it first with no shims and now it has 2 shims ( man i hate trying to get those in!!! ) So its definitly not the shims, the engine does turn a little, I can see the beltn turning like 6 inches maybe. The alternator is new but i'm not sure how that would effect the starter??? Could it be causing a drain??? I'll try unhooking it just for fun :-). I definitly think that a grounding issue could be the source of the problem, Like i said earlier I found my engine ground wire had both end grounded to the batter like retard i was. I did make a very good connection to the engine now, so I dont know what maybe I could of fryed with that ground off??? I figure the new starter is still okay cuz i only tried starting maybe 5=7 times with that wire off, and it still is trying to turn the engine a bit, just still no oomph. The lights still dim on my dash when I attempt to start, and the battery Is still very charged. Thanx for the ideas!!! Keep em comming :-)