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Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378682 01/19/04 07:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,688
Esquire812 Offline
Trail Leader
For most of us that have done this, pictures would be like reliving a nightmare! lol What fuel line are trying to unhook? If you cant get the outlet side of the filter to fuel rail line off, disconnect it at the fuel rail itself. Once the head and intake are off then you can resort to large tools to break the torque on the banjo bolts.
The missing exhuast stud is a common issue although its usually one of the studs on the far side of #4. Just get a replacement and thread it in. I always pull the exhuast manifold off the head, leave it attached to the downpipe and after removing the bellhousing exhuast brace clamp...pull it to the side out of the way. Upper intake has to come off regardless in order to get all the electrical disconnected. But save yourself alot of time by pulling the head with the lower intake still attached. Make sure you disconnect the heater hose from the hard pipe that wraps around the head. Quick way around the A/C and PS without unhooking the hoses, unbolt from their mounts and tie off to the inner fenders. Leaves plenty of room to work. As you said you are doing- Take Your Time and do it right the first time. Should be a piece of cake, and once you get ready to bolt it all back together you'll be an old pro!
~Darin <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />


88' 4x4 *22R-EB Gen II*
87' $Runner *22R-EB Gen I*
85' Sillyca 22R-Esq

"I LIVE IN MY OWN WORLD...THEY KNOW ME WELL THERE"
Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Esquire812] #378683 01/20/04 09:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 823
Brown Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Last night's story:

Head bolt: 1
3/8" Drive ratchet: 0

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

Luckily I have another. I'll be breaking out the 1/2" breaker bar with a 17mm impact socket borrowed from work tonight. I thought my hand was broken last night when that ratchet let loose. Yikes! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

I should be able to get to the bottom of the problem tonight.


Jeremy
SOLD:[color:"666666"]1988 Toyota 4x4 | 22RE | W56 | EB 270 cam [/color]
Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378684 01/21/04 03:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,305
ZUK Offline
Body Damage is Cool
How's it going Jeremy?.....When the head is off, do you notice one of the pistons is unusually clean?


[color:"blue"]www.gearinstalls.com[/color]


01 Taco xtracab V6 auto TRD white
mostly stock
88 Runner/V6/auto/31"/5.29gear

Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: ZUK] #378685 01/21/04 04:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 823
Brown Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Well, I believe I found the culprit:

[Linked Image]

Notice how the metal ring has started to separate and pull back from the cylinder side, leading it to split.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), I uncovered another problem while inspecting the cam and rocker arms. The #3 and #4 exhaust lobes were all munched as were the rocker arms themselves. Looked like they had been hit by a grinding wheel that's how bad they look. So, I emailed EB and got a quote to replace all this stuff, and decided that I might as well go for the RV cam (the 270 version) while I'm at it along with new valve springs.

Darin-- tell me about this cam! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/coolg.gif" alt="" /> Do you need to do anything else to the engine to make it run well? My motor is all stock, and all I have is a 2-1/4" cat back exhaust. Does the AFM need to be adjusted?

Also, concerning the head-- should I have it professionally cleaned, or should I be able to do that myself? I'm sure I can rent a valve spring compresser and completely disassemble the head. I just want to make sure I get everything super clean. I can inspect the head for flatness at work-- we have a surface plate here.

I'm sure I'll have more questions. You guys have been very helpful, and I appreciate it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> So that's the update for now.


Jeremy
SOLD:[color:"666666"]1988 Toyota 4x4 | 22RE | W56 | EB 270 cam [/color]
Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378686 01/21/04 06:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,305
ZUK Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Jeremy---ya....looks like you found the issue....#1 cylinder....I am also real curious about how a computer controlled engine will take to an RV cam. Good thing you found the cam damage also.


[color:"blue"]www.gearinstalls.com[/color]


01 Taco xtracab V6 auto TRD white
mostly stock
88 Runner/V6/auto/31"/5.29gear

Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378687 01/21/04 07:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,688
Esquire812 Offline
Trail Leader
Boy howdy...that'll definately cause a problem! lol. The tricky ones are when the fire ring seperates inbetween layers and there is no visible sign except for a little teeny tiny rust dot on the edge.
You made pretty quick work of getting the head off-congrats.

Cleaning: If the head has never been off and $$ isnt extremely tight right now- might be in your better interest to have a shop clean it up and inspect for cracks. Or if you know what to look for then you can handle it. Ive cleaned and inspected all my heads, and then had Tod and EB inspect a couple as well. Kerosene and brushes...lots of brushes! Cracks will look like a hair imbedded in the casting and will disappear when you change the angle of lighting...yet wont be detected with the finger nail test.

On the cam: Hmmm whats there to tell? lol Well, your powerband will shift a little lower in the RPM scale, yet be longer overall. Your smooth quiet idle is gonna be a thing of the past but you will get used to that. Some people have problems after install that cant ever be tracked down-yet its cam related. This is what EB calls "OH...whats that syndrome"! Performance camshaft will change the engines attitude and will require some tuning tweaks to get dialed in. For example, my engine got hungrier at idle, isnt happy unless warm idle is 950-1000 RPMS. If ya have any specific questions just ask. I run 2 stepped exhuast from the downpipe into 2" strait pipe into an aftermarket 2-1/4" muffler and exit with 2-1/4" so we have similar exhuast systems regarding flow.

AFM adjusting: BAD JUJU Jeremy! My opinion- Dont ever cut the top and mess with something that the ECU relies on for maintaining air/fuel ratios. The increase in vaccum will pull the vane in the AFM proportionately anyways. So the dont worry about fuel needs yet. Over the last few years, Ive helped a couple of people fix their 22R-Es. Sometimes we can replace damn near the entire injection system before a light goes off in my head. When I ask "have you screwed with AFM"? and the answer is yes...replace the AFM and problem solved. I got cocky and tweaked mine 3 teeth rich thinking the Street RV head and exhuast mods could handle it. That was my biggest mistake- 2 years preaching Hands Off and then I went and did it. About 3 weeks later my engine lost the #4 compression rings. After EB looked at it and I finally told him what I had done...yup rich mixture washing down the cylinder walls. LOL Only as a last resort to get a heavily modified engine to run should the AFM be tweaked. Ok...gonna climb off the soapbox now- you got some work ahead of you.
~Darin <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Esquire812; 01/21/04 07:16 PM.

88' 4x4 *22R-EB Gen II*
87' $Runner *22R-EB Gen I*
85' Sillyca 22R-Esq

"I LIVE IN MY OWN WORLD...THEY KNOW ME WELL THERE"
Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378688 01/21/04 07:55 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
Quote
Well, I believe I found the culprit:



Notice how the metal ring has started to separate and pull back from the cylinder side, leading it to split.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), I uncovered another problem while inspecting the cam and rocker arms. The #3 and #4 exhaust lobes were all munched as were the rocker arms themselves. Looked like they had been hit by a grinding wheel that's how bad they look. So, I emailed EB and got a quote to replace all this stuff, and decided that I might as well go for the RV cam (the 270 version) while I'm at it along with new valve springs.

Darin-- tell me about this cam! Do you need to do anything else to the engine to make it run well? My motor is all stock, and all I have is a 2-1/4" cat back exhaust. Does the AFM need to be adjusted?

Also, concerning the head-- should I have it professionally cleaned, or should I be able to do that myself? I'm sure I can rent a valve spring compresser and completely disassemble the head. I just want to make sure I get everything super clean. I can inspect the head for flatness at work-- we have a surface plate here.

I'm sure I'll have more questions. You guys have been very helpful, and I appreciate it. So that's the update for now.


Fugly!

I havn't seen many blow the fire ring like that. Are you way high on compression? Is there any chance the head was over torqued?

Also a cautionary tale: Last time I saw that (a few months ago in a 2F-SE) it was because the rod bearing was worn and the piston ws smacking the head. The F-ring just was in the way and got smashed to smithereens (much, much worse than your gasket- it was seriously FUBARed). Junked the whole car. And there was surprisingly little noise. It sounded like a valve ticking.

Be sure to double check!!! EZ to do without pulling the pan- just look for evidence of collision on the head and piston (shiny aluminum) or crank that sucker up to TDC and see if it peeks up over the block. Cheap and easy if you find and fix a bearing before it goes critical.

Usually on a blown gasket, I see a coolant path over the f-ring.

About your cam- good eyes! most people overlook it.

About EB's cam- haven't tried it yet, but his other customers rave about it, and they can't all be wrong.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, EB's good people. You'll be happy, I promise.

About your AFM, Darin's right. Leave it be. Exception: If you know for a fact that you're running too lean, then one click rich. Remember- you have a feedback ECU controlling mixture. The O2 ought to be able to feed info to the computer regardless of any cam you install and be fairly accurate. I mean, if you really want to get into high-end tuning, then play away. But remember the consequences if you get it too wet in there!!!!

Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Esquire812] #378689 01/21/04 10:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 823
Brown Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Silky smooth idle? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Obviously I haven't had one of those in awhile with the cam all jumbled up as it is. You know how the end of the rocker arm that rides on the cam has sort of a convex shape to it? Well, my #3 and #4 exhaust rockers had a nice CONCAVE shape to them. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I was suprised at how worn they were. Is this a common area for failures? Is there a lack of oil problem here? I have had valve train noise no matter what I did ever since I got this truck (coming up on 2 years now), and I'm suprised I didn't notice this sooner. Talk about bad JUJU.... way to go Brown!

Are the new cam bearings pretty straightforward to install? What is the break in procedure for a new cam? I suppose I can deal with the power coming in a little bit sooner <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />-- as long as it'll still cruise on the highway at 80 mph and crawl a trail in 4 low without hiccuping, I'll be happy with it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/coolg.gif" alt="" />

I think I'm going to give it a go with cleaning the head myself. Kerosene eh? I'll give it a shot. The budget was already tight enough without having to replace the cam, now I don't think I can really afford to have a shop do the head unless it's absolutely a necessity.

I will check the #1 piston to make sure that it's not coming above the deck surface. I don't recall noticing anything like that, but I'll take another look at it.

Thanks for the advice to both of you about the AFM. I've read things about it in the past, and thought maybe it was needed. I'll also be sending my injectors up to Cruzin Performance per your recommendations. I don't think I could beat his prices here locally. I'm going to try to ship them out tonight, otherwise I'm taking the night off. It's my birthday, so I figured I'd relax tonight and spend some "quality" time with my wife, since my truck has been getting all the time the past few days.

Darin-- did you use the RV valve springs with the RV cam? I was assuming that was a requirement. And can I ask a simple question? What does "RV" mean in regards to a cam? I've seen it since I started learning about cars and engines over 10 years ago, and have always wondered what it was but never cared to ask... at first I just assumed that it meant Recreational Vehicle. But who would want a Winnebago profile cam for their engine? LOL Now that I may own one, I guess I should know what it means.


Jeremy
SOLD:[color:"666666"]1988 Toyota 4x4 | 22RE | W56 | EB 270 cam [/color]
Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378690 01/21/04 11:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,986
Red_Chili Offline
Toyota Section Staffer
Check your block deck very carefully for corrosion. Here's hoping you find NONE, and that its perfectly flat.


-Bill
'87 4Runner w/ '96 5VZ-FE, 'Red Chili II'
'97 Taco XtraCab 3RZ-FE, 'BlackBean'
TLCA # 13257, Rising Sun 4x4 Club Land Use Coordinator
"He who stops being better stops being good." -Oliver Cromwell
Re: 22RE - High pressure in coolant system [Re: Brown] #378691 01/21/04 11:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,688
Esquire812 Offline
Trail Leader
Common area of failure? Nooo, in fact your situation is the first time I have heard of such a problem. Things that cause wear are heat, lack of lubrication and pressure. Too tight off valve clearnaces, maybe slow oil port...who knows. Trick is you caught it, I can guarentee you that those rockers would have wiped out the cam during break in. Break in...I took the engine up to 2200 RPMS (fiddled with idle set and alittle timing advance so I didnt have to sit in the cab with foot on the peddle) for about 20 minutes. When all put back together but prior to valve cover going on, pour your engine oil directly over the camshaft so that the lobes get a good film and the dipping pools are full.
*Cam bearings: Dont exist on this design. you have the cam journals and thats it. The oil hole provides high enough pressure and the surface finishes of the journals and cam are enough. Beats the hell outta cam bearings in my opinion. EB will have specs for your install including valve clearances, breakin and quite sure a reminder to use PLENTY of assembly lube on the cam.

RV Cam: Welcome to our "special clan". Here is the big secret....The R=Not and V=Stock! lol seriously at one time I thought I had read what it meant somewheres and was promptly corrected on the subject by the experts.

RV Springs: I went with EBs standard valve springs as far as I know. What ever ones were included in the kit. See I started off with an RV cam as Christmas present....bought the O/S valve head kit with guides, springs etc. When I got down to the shop with two castings to choose from for the build up...I opted for the new casting. (I hate cracked heads!!) If the springs you are refering to are the double springs- dont get em. Stockers are more than capable of handling the cam.

On your birthday- hell yeah take the day off. If your wife is willing to spend time with you then go for it. Give her something in return, ya know..for your birthday! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> LOL Sorry..Im gonna back out of that one.
Happy Birthday Jeremy
~Darin <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />


88' 4x4 *22R-EB Gen II*
87' $Runner *22R-EB Gen I*
85' Sillyca 22R-Esq

"I LIVE IN MY OWN WORLD...THEY KNOW ME WELL THERE"
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