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 Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
#387349
03/14/04 06:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 166
Wheeler
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An electric fanc does draw power from the electrical system, but not from the engine directly. It uses power generated by the alternator. The extra drag on the engine from the load on the alternator is much less than the drag from a belt driven fan.
Thermostatically controlled directly driven cooling fans are nothing new. My '69 Plymouth Satellite had one.
According to the FSM, the fans on our cars are mounted on a clutch that is controlled by temperature and engine speed. If the engine speed is low or the temperature felt by the clutch is high, the clutch engages to spin the fan. If the car is moving fast enough to move sufficient air through the radiator to cool the engine, theoretically the fan should freewheel, using little or no power. Practically, the fan will always use a little engine power to spin so it will pull air through the radiator. If it didn't, it would have no way to reliably feel the air temperature.
My '94 Suzuki Sidekick had an electric booster fan mounted between the grille and air conditioner condenser coil. It was a very shallow unit and operated when the A/C clutch was engaged or a high-temp switch on the thermostat housing opened (for fail-safe operation). Maybe you can find one on a Sidekick at a wrecking yard. I seriously suggest using a relay to control the fan motor and find a control power source that is hot when the ignition is on to keep the fan from operating when the ignition is off.
Don, y'all
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: DSHornet]
#387350
03/14/04 11:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,497
Kia Moderator Emeritus
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My '94 Suzuki Sidekick had an electric booster fan mounted between the grille and air conditioner condenser coil. It was a very shallow unit and operated when the A/C clutch was engaged or a high-temp switch on the thermostat housing opened (for fail-safe operation). Maybe you can find one on a Sidekick at a wrecking yard. I seriously suggest using a relay to control the fan motor and find a control power source that is hot when the ignition is on to keep the fan from operating when the ignition is off.
Don, y'all
. We have a condensor cooling fan too. Mounted on the left side of the grille in front of the condensor. But it is strictly for the A/C system and comes on only when the A/C is on. It does not have a high temperature sensor to turn it on in case the clutch fan fails.
1998 Sportage - Gone.
2004 Honda Civic Coupe.
2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara - She got it.
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
#387351
06/02/04 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
OP
Body Damage is Cool
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power-trax Found this company in Germany... I know I have promissed diferently but a kit with everything included I think is a better solution plus not expensive if you consider how mutch the clutch costs Its about the midle of the page..
'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS http://members.cardomain.com/fokion
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: fokion]
#387352
06/02/04 07:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 339
Mudrunner
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Flex-a-lite reccomends their #116 fan for the Sportage. http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/trimline-fan.html
Ron Schroeder
Long Island NY
99 4DR auto Sportage, 30x950R15 tires, 3/4" strut spacer, rear air springs, Manual Hubs, FRONT Torsen LSD
00 Safari AWD, 2" lift, 30x9.50 tires, 4x4 conversion in progress
73 Pinzgauer Swiss Army troop carrier
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: wd8cdh]
#387353
06/03/04 01:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 360
Mudrunner
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mmm...lots of ideas here but for your information:
In nature, you get nothing for free. Moving the same amount of air, be it from a mechanically driven fan or an electrically driven fan, draws the same amount of power . However, you may use a less powerful electric fan and run it for more time, so the instaneouos power required is less. That is not opinion, that it physics.
You think driving an alternator is easy? how many times have you had to tighten that belt to stop it from screeching driving the alternator: nothing like that for the fan...yes, the fan pulley diameter is larger, so you need less pull from the belt, because you have more leverage. Anyway, those electric fans require 25-30 amps Ó 14.5 volts ( regulated voltage with engine running), so about 400-450 watt: the regulator will maintain voltage so for that, it will excite the alternator to provide the additional 30 amps as required, not the battery; driving belt plus alternator combinaison has about a 60% efficiency so you will need about 750 watt from the engine, which is 1 h.p. This is not a loss less that what a mechanical fan requires.
Also, when the mechanical fan runs idle at 60 mph, well the windstream will make the fan rotate almost as much as if it were driven, so no real strain in fact on the system.
A normal car running at 60 mph requires about 20 hp to maintain constant speed. (I,ll offer you an easy test for that soon). So no way that fan requires 10 hp.
ALL in all, it is a question of preference: I might have fun installing an electric fan, whatever the reason, and if I like that, I'd do it. SO no problem.
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: Lou]
#387354
06/03/04 05:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,527
Trail Leader
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the SPortage radiator is smaller than 28" in fact, it's smaller than 20x20. it's about 19x17 or something ridiculously small. electric fans others have run with no problem are in the 16" size with the adjustable thermos, but you have to keep adjusting them til you get it right. i plan to do this mod too, but i been planning to for a couple years now. when i get the cash after the SAS is totally complete, this is one of the next steps. not necessarily looking for a HP gain, but if it happens........
95 Sportage w/welded and 5.89 geared dana 44's on 38.5" TSL's.- SADLY SOLD CURRENTLY - 2000 sportage, 5.38 gears, welded diffs, 35" tires, 5.5" lift http://www.cardomain.com/ride/341410
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: Lou]
#387355
06/03/04 05:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 339
Mudrunner
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Hi Lou,
Your figures are a little off. My electric cooling fan only draws 10.5 amps. Also the air flow will not spin the mechanical cooling fan up to engine speed at 60 MPH. When I temporarily mounted the stock fan on an independant bearing, the airflow only spun it up to about 1100rpm at 60MPH.
Ron Schroeder
Long Island NY
99 4DR auto Sportage, 30x950R15 tires, 3/4" strut spacer, rear air springs, Manual Hubs, FRONT Torsen LSD
00 Safari AWD, 2" lift, 30x9.50 tires, 4x4 conversion in progress
73 Pinzgauer Swiss Army troop carrier
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: Lou]
#387356
06/15/04 11:39 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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mmm...lots of ideas here but for your information:
In nature, you get nothing for free. Moving the same amount of air, be it from a mechanically driven fan or an electrically driven fan, draws the same amount of power . However, you may use a less powerful electric fan and run it for more time, so the instaneouos power required is less. That is not opinion, that it physics.
You think driving an alternator is easy? how many times have you had to tighten that belt to stop it from screeching driving the alternator: nothing like that for the fan...yes, the fan pulley diameter is larger, so you need less pull from the belt, because you have more leverage. Anyway, those electric fans require 25-30 amps Ó 14.5 volts ( regulated voltage with engine running), so about 400-450 watt: the regulator will maintain voltage so for that, it will excite the alternator to provide the additional 30 amps as required, not the battery; driving belt plus alternator combinaison has about a 60% efficiency so you will need about 750 watt from the engine, which is 1 h.p. This is not a loss less that what a mechanical fan requires.
Also, when the mechanical fan runs idle at 60 mph, well the windstream will make the fan rotate almost as much as if it were driven, so no real strain in fact on the system.
A normal car running at 60 mph requires about 20 hp to maintain constant speed. (I,ll offer you an easy test for that soon). So no way that fan requires 10 hp.
ALL in all, it is a question of preference: I might have fun installing an electric fan, whatever the reason, and if I like that, I'd do it. SO no problem. Some devices are more efficient than others. When I turn on 30 amps worth of extra lighting + headlights + fan blower + turn up the 300 watt sound system all at the sme time....... I don't feel anything ( just a fact ) but..... when that fan starts to run there is nothing you can do except wait for acceleration.. don't pull out in front of someone because it will be ugly! I think the part time advantage of an electric fan replacement is assured. Of course add running the AC into the mix and it gets real bad. At 50 mph if the fan starts... I can feel the hit. I have had guys from a few shops tell me that people thought there new sport was loosing the clutch ( tranny ) when it was simply the fan running...... The first thing I noticed when I got mine. Kind Regards, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> Mark
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
#387357
06/16/04 01:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 339
Mudrunner
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[quote when that fan starts to run there is nothing you can do except wait for acceleration.. don't pull out in front of someone because it will be ugly! <snip> At 50 mph if the fan starts... I can feel the hit. I have had guys from a few shops tell me that people thought there new sport was loosing the clutch ( tranny ) when it was simply the fan running...... The first thing I noticed when I got mine. Kind Regards, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> Mark [/quote] Mark, What fan are you running? Ron
Ron Schroeder
Long Island NY
99 4DR auto Sportage, 30x950R15 tires, 3/4" strut spacer, rear air springs, Manual Hubs, FRONT Torsen LSD
00 Safari AWD, 2" lift, 30x9.50 tires, 4x4 conversion in progress
73 Pinzgauer Swiss Army troop carrier
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Re: electric fan. Has anybody DONE it?
[Re: fokion]
#387358
06/17/04 03:46 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Why can't the fan assembly be seperated from the pulley and the pulley retained?
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