Guys, I want to toss this out and hear what you have to say.

Lately, it seems that we (the moderators) are having to deal with more and more petty BS that should not even be coming up. Nothing major, but it's the tiny things. I also see it in comments from you (the forum members) in some posts. It seems like there may be some people (or a whole lot of people, for all I know) who may not be happy with how the forum is moderated.

Maybe I am just perceiving things incorrectly. Lately, because of things beyond my control, I am able to spend more time on the board. This coincided with a couple of the other moderators spending a bit less time on the boards for their own reasons. A good bit my time is spent doing the minor things of moderation. But this also means, I get to be the heavy hand more often. We usually try and spread the blame around a bit, but that does not always work. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lately, I had to deal with a few posts that were moderated, moved or locked because they did not belong where they were. In at least one, I asked for anyone who had questions or comments to contact me or any of the moderators and we would be more than happy to discuss our actions. Apparently this was not understood, because a public airing of the dirty laundry ensued. We work hard at moderating behind the scenes and by publicly flogging us, it makes that kind of hard to do. If you never knew we were here, then we could consider it to be a success. I have frequented other boards where things were ruled with an iron fist. I am hoping we do not come across like this.

Some of the conflict seems to come from a few things that are just not debatable. I can't outline all of these things (there are a few no-no's, like cross-posting, personal attacks and bashing newbies) but one is the difference between Isuzu Tech and Isuzu Talk. The overall reason for this division is to split the general areas of information into two gross groups. Sometimes people are not sure what goes where. This is fine and it is what we are here for. But the definition of Talk is Isuzu related talk. It is not an off-topic or open chat board. We (and those mods before me) have decided to keep it that way. This makes it slightly different than the other Talk forums on the wire. The guys in Toy-land and Mitsu-land have off-topic talk forums. For many reasons, we do not want to do that here. There are other sites on the internet to discuss things that do not meet the required Isuzu content.

To some, this may not seem fair. To those folks, I am sorry, but when it comes to the base rules, they are not going to change. Outside topic questions (somewhat dependent upon the actual question) are sometimes allowed for a short while, but we don't want them flowing into a heavy discussion. Pictures and videos that are not Isuzu related (even if the Geo Storm getting its rear end torn off is made by or influenced by Isuzu) are just not allowed. If you have questions about what you want to post or propose, please contact us.

The other side of this is that we (the VOLUNTEERS) who moderate are only human. We do make mistakes from time to time. If we do, it would be better for those involved to send us a note, instead of firing up the flame machine. Trust me, we will be nicer if we are not called nasty (although it is humorous) names. If we do something that upsets you, please let us know, nicely. Personally, I know I can be perceived a blunt from time to time (sometimes more than that). Some of it is how I type, some of it is a lack of smiley usage. I can say that 99% of the time, I am not out to make you mad. This is only the internet and I have better things to do than upset someone else on the end of my keyboard. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I want to hear what people are thinking. What do you see? What could we consider doing to make it better? We have not done this in a while and maybe it is time. All I ask is to try and understand it from our point of view to some degree. We are Isuzu enthusiasts first and foremost, moderators second. We would rather read the posts and help those that we can. I know I completely dig this Forum. The amount of diverse people bring a tremendous amount of knowledge into one spot, while at the same time we are able to keep some humor in it. I know I have made many friends via here, and I know there are some of you who have made even more than I have. In general, this place is good, let's try and see if we can keep it that way.

If you have comments that you do not want to post, then send an email or PM. There are links to our email addresses at the bottom of each Forum page. Just to absolve the others, I've done this without warning the other moderators, but I think they will play along with it.

Michael

I lurk more than post but I'm completely happy with things around here. I prefer to see on-topic posts (ISUZU) rather than off-topic jabber. I have to admit that I haven't really notice a lot of off-topic posts, but then I tend to read the headers and dismiss the ones that aren't of interrest.

Generally speaking I think you guys do a bang up job. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> I understand the desire to minimize OT discussion and keep it Isuzu related - that is what makes this the richest nook of Zu-centric info on the net, hands down.




Michael, I personally have great respect for your vast knowledge of Isuzu tech. However, it is my observation that often you can be quite condescending when parting with this wisdom. While I doubt most of us are thin skinned enough to really get upset by this, usually it only serves to exacerbate ones frustration when they only seek information to help get through their newest problem or try and educate themselves and plan for that next mod.

I understand that it gets old answering the same queries time and time again, especially when they relate to matters that are obvious(to you) and simplistic. My only suggestion would be to allow others to try and field more questions and put our own knowledge to the test before you give your absolute truths.

Again, I'm very thankful of the work that you, Jim, Randii and the others perform to make this the place it is. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Hang on, let me go look for my Honda Passport forum since this is only for Isuzus...

Oh there's one, but I don't speak Japanese (nevermind write it!!) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've only seen a few posts around here which are truly Isuzu chat-related questions or comments. Most are posted by Wayne. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mostly every other post is truly technical in nature:
1) Should I use a toy or old wagoneer front end for SAS?
2) What can I do to get more power?
3) With 3" lift, what size tires can I fit?
4) Anyone have a magical cure for that lifter ticking??

and on and on. Should all of them be pushed to the tech section then???

Personally, I see this Talk section more as a light-weight Isuzu tech forum. Generally, the same users browse the tech and talk forums but you'll just a deeper, more involved response on the tech board which may not be what you're looking for.

That said, what's the point of this Talk section? (no offense Wayne <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

I think the mood of a Talk forum should be lighter in nature than Tech and that's what I've been seeing. Some people get out of line and the presently browsing moderator (usually the initiator of this thread <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />) will fire back a quick comment simply because you guys don't have time to write up a lengthy response. Those quick responses seem kurt and almost like a quick back-hand to the poster, and then things degrade. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Also, with familiarity of the people around here, you can pretty much know what to expect when you read a thread based on who posted to it. I always know to put a fresh pot of coffee on and get comfortable if I see Smiley posted something. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> So if I'm in a rush or I don't feel like reading a lot, I'll just skip certain posts (but I never skip Smiley's because they're actually funny <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />).

For the most part, I agree with you that you do your best but some quick, kurt responses are easily taken IN context and flames are drawn. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

I've never seen a valid case where locking a thread has ever been beneficial. I've also seen cases where someone will post something in the "4 sale" section without response for weeks. They'll then drop a quick line in the Talk forum and the thread promptly gets pushed to the 4 sale forum, where they didn't have luck originally. The quick summation is: great, thanks for nothing. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

Also, for most of us who don't have time to browse this forum or others all day (no offense moderators <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />) we usually try to get the most out of this single point of questioning. I can get more info from this one place (Isuzu Talk) than I can find on most other boards combined. That's a good thing. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

I've had friends and my brother in law talk to me and ask where I got the idea to do this or that or how I knew which tool would work best for something and where I could buy it and how much I would have to pay for it, blah blah blah. 95% of the time, "I heard about it on 4x4wire's Isuzu talk forum" is my respone. There are lots of places to find the same info I can find in this one location, which is why I love this place so much.

If you want to change that, go right ahead, but I think you'll be losing a lot of loyal fans and friends.

Also, about using the search feature...
Typically if someone posts a question we've all seen a billion times, all they're looking for is a quick answer. Not "use the search feature".

Did you know the movies in Blockbuster are all listed in alphabetical order? Still, how many times do you ask the worker if they have Matrix Reloaded on DVD because you didn't see one on the shelf?? I'm sure that worker feels like <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> just like the moderators do, but he won't snap a one-liner "Did you see any on the shelf?". We all enjoy a little courtesy. Most of the people around here are pretty good at moderating ourselves (which is why everyone has posted "use the search feature").

I've wasted enough time. This is ridiculous. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/sleeping.gif" alt="" />

You do a good job and we enjoy it the way it is. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Try not to take the stupid comments personally (some comments genuinely are stupid BTW <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). Maybe if you were more specific with the kinds of things you have a genuine problem with, you can post a list of rules somewhere convenient (maybe a sticky) so we know what geniunely makes you mad.

As an aside, is it 4x4wire that runs all this adware? I got about 20 popups during this little writeup that kill my train of thought every time. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />

Jeez, that's a lot of text. Sorry. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

i agree with good ol pucci!
i understand the fact that it seems to be fairl black and white around here, the same old questions coming from new people every day, but i remember when i was a newbie, i didn't know how things were run around here, the search feature was an unrealized weatlh of knowledge, it was intimidating
keep in mind that most off topic and seemingly ingorant comments normally come from those that aren't as schooled in the ways of this forum
I fully respect you guys, to put yourself out for public ridicule with no monetary compensation must get old, and yet, ya'll keep at it, still sharing your wealth of knowledge with us, however painful it may be
i apologize for my ignorant rule bending comments, i think the ambiguous medium we are working with allows misconceptions to constantly be made not in anyone's favor, and for the most part, we're all here to learn, and at least where i'm concerned my little "humourous" quips are only intended to be that, i don't think anyone seeks to try and ruin someones life via the internet
so i guess i'm tryin to say, keep up the good work..........and "patience is a virtue"

I just want to say thanks to all for making this place the way that it is. I've been a member for some time, and while I don't post all that much, I derive great enjoyment/information from the conversations here. I would go so far as to say that I learn more here than I do anywhere else on the net.

Thanks again...

Reading this board and reading another similar board (4x4 related & brand specific) I have some input. The other board I read has separate talk and tech sections, but the talk section is open to off-topic discussions. The discussions that come up are often entertaining although not 4x4 or even specific brand vehicle related. I like that type of forum but do see the inherent problems in it.

The problems I've seen have been along the lines of, one person has a view of the world (un 4x4 related) than another person does. Person B takes offense to what person A says & a battle ensues. After several battles of the like either person A or B says that they are leaving the board because their view or opinion isn't respected even though it is un 4x4 related. The aftermath is that everyone is sad to see that person leave and all of their knowledge of on-topic information that leaves with them.

Although I do enjoy reading the off-topic boards (for off-topic entertainment purposes) I am glad that we aren't losing people and their knowledge. There are other boards I can go to that specialize in unstructured un-topic related subject matter. & I know that when I need good info this forum is one that I can look to. I can see that a line needs to be drawn somewhere between on & off-topic threads and everyone's view of where that line should be is going to be different.

On the large, I would say that a fine job is being done for the type of forum that this Isuzu board has decided to maintain. Consistency seems to vary from time to time slightly but on the whole it sticks to its core guidelines.

Half in the bag after watching the superbowl,
--jeremy

Once you get a feeling for this board and youve been around for awhile, you get the jist of what is cool and what aint. i like the way this forum is moderated. i appreciate the time yall put in as well. you guys usually do a bang up job, but when you have to moderate because of a newb let em know why you're doing what your doing. if its someone whos been around for awhile, go ahead and be firm as you want. they should know better.

i think some people like to throw out off-topic stuff in this section is because we all kind of know each others personalities and sometimes you want to know what the folks you cyber-hangout with think about it. not alot of people here check out the gen discussion board because they're used to our crowd. im kinda rambling here and i dunno if im making my point well, but if you get what im saying it ought to make sense.

there are more and more new folks coming in, which is awesome, but that means you gotta deal with more people who dont know the rules. just be clear with them why youre doing what your doing (this thread ought to help a lot with that) and all should be cool

anyways, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" /> keep up the good work. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

I like that this place is very civil and a great source of information. The one thing that sets this forum apart from the others i've been to is the lack of flaming. Whenever I come here, I know I can find what i'm looking for, or an honest guess if not.

When moderating, there will always be hurt egos however i must commend you guys on the work you do, while causing very little stir...it's quite refreshing. Keep up the good work. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />