thanks for that info Flave...yeah, I think i'd get enough use out of it to justify it...i have a good friend who just bought a heep...he has all the welding equipment we could EVER POSSIBLY need, and my thinking was, if I had the bender, he'd likely hook me up with welding if I lend him the bender <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm gonna hold off for awhile though...not sure what my final bill is gonna be on my baby that's in the shop.