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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425669
04/02/04 08:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,986
Toyota Section Staffer
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Really sorry about your experiences, Chris. Its not that hard, or at least should not be. By all means use Roger's tape measure method. I keep intending to go to an alignment shop to check my caster mostly, but with even and flat tire wear and no issues I just can't seem to justify the $50 or so.
The guy @ Terraliner seemed like a nice fella, but your experiences are cause for caution - of course, that's on third hand info, don't want to deep six a guy on the web on that basis. Sometimes it just goes south. Will he work with you?
FWIW, I seem to like how it handles with 0.0" toe. YMMV.
My offer still stands to help if I can.
-Bill '87 4Runner w/ '96 5VZ-FE, 'Red Chili II' '97 Taco XtraCab 3RZ-FE, 'BlackBean' TLCA # 13257, Rising Sun 4x4 Club Land Use Coordinator "He who stops being better stops being good." -Oliver Cromwell
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425670
04/05/04 03:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
OP
Wheeler
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Well I was under the truck for a bit this weekend and I got some things accomplished. First of all I took all of the cotter pins out that the guy at the shop had to hammer through to get them in. I took my time and was able to get all of the ends tightened down by hand enough so that the pins went through like they are supposed to. The one on the pitman arm is much better and there is no play at all there. I also went through the process of bleeding the steering box with ATF. I think that it had power steering fluid in it because it was not red. I searched here and everyone said to use ATF. I tried several of the methods that were recommended here but what worked the best was hooking up a one man brake bleeder kit to the bleeder valve on the steering box, starting the truck and watching the bleeder line until there weren't any more bubbles. I then closed the bleeder valve and tried the steering. It turns much easier than with the stock box. I only wish it were this easy to bleed brakes.
I now have a couple of problems. The steering works so well that it is clear that it needs an alignment. I think it is pulling a little to the right. We did the whole "home alignment" with a measuring tape before I left the shop in Boulder, but I would prefer getting it computer aligned at least once and then trying to maintain those settings myself. The other thing is I can't get my steering wheel to center. I took off the pitman arm three separate times and I can only get it within one quarter turn to either side of center. Does anyone have any ideas? Do you think that is how close together the teeth are on the output shaft? I was getting pretty frustrated and just left it for now. I was also thinking maybe the alignment shop can fix that too.
Chris Sutton Golden, Colorado
1985 Toyota 4Runner - Longfields, 5.29's, EZ Locker F/R, Marlin X-Over, Rancho 99012's, 35" BFG AT KO, 414K miles. 1996 FZJ80 stock with 191K miles. 1980 FJ40 stock with 85K original miles.
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425671
04/05/04 03:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,986
Toyota Section Staffer
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If it pulls to one side with a solid axle, that's weird, unless its due to uneven tire inflation. I guess another possibility is the trunion bearing preload is not properly set, like REALLY not properly set. These are easy to address or at least check. Check wheel bearing preload too. But a solid axle front end is very basic and relatively easy to troubleshoot.
Chris, I think you will be less than impressed leaking even more money to a computerized alignment shop. I had good luck going to Burt Chevrolet (Burt Toy sends some of their stuff there I believe, or used to). They had an old codger there who knew his stuff. Frankly, the only adjustment is toe. Castor adjustment needs axle shims to get right. Camber out of whack means a bent axle housing, or out of tolerance steering arms I guess, possibly. IF it did not pull to the right before, it should be fine now, since all you did was high steer.
Centering the pitman, if you look closely you will find center match marks on the steering box shaft. Align the pitman to those marks and you should be good. That is, if the steering box is also centered with the steering wheel! If not, pull and replace the steering wheel and you are good to go.
Fine adjustments are made by changing the length of the drag link, not by moving the pitman. If you are within 1/4 steering wheel turn of center, play with the drag link. One end is RH thread, the other is LH, so loosen the locknuts and turn the link a bit. I would say do 1/4 rotation of the link at a time, you will be surprised how much that changes things.
FWIW, let's just say it does not sound like you got your money's worth from the Boulder shop.
DIY does more than saving you money, it educates you.
Last edited by Bill_Morgan; 04/05/04 04:01 PM.
-Bill '87 4Runner w/ '96 5VZ-FE, 'Red Chili II' '97 Taco XtraCab 3RZ-FE, 'BlackBean' TLCA # 13257, Rising Sun 4x4 Club Land Use Coordinator "He who stops being better stops being good." -Oliver Cromwell
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425672
04/05/04 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,153
Web Wheeler
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There is but one way to put the pitman arm on, line up the scribed lines on the arm and the sector shaft (mine do line up, its the camera angle that makes them look a bot off): This *is* the likely cause of your steering pull, if the box is not centered properly, it'll tend to pull towards its center position. Mine did this until I lined up the center lines. And you can get the steering wheel centered by pulling it out at the firewall clamp and line it up there. I was able to get all my alignment done in the driveway: Details on alignment proceedure. The key was to get everything that matters lined up on its own, then hook the parts together. I lined up the front tires to the rear, setting the toe at the same time (by adjusting the tie rod), then centered the steering box and pitman arm and centered the steering wheel. Then adjust the drag link length to keep the front wheels lined up with the rear and insert the steering shaft to keep the steering wheel centered.
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: 4Crawler]
#425673
04/05/04 04:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
OP
Wheeler
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Tons of great info in those last two replys. Thanks guys. I was just trying to mount up the pitman based on the current position of the draglink. I keep assuming that something was done properly and continue to be disappointed. I will print both replys and take a look at what is going on with my steering. I hope it is pulling because of it not being centered and not because of the knuckles being tightened to a different resistance on each side. Thanks again.
Chris Sutton Golden, Colorado
1985 Toyota 4Runner - Longfields, 5.29's, EZ Locker F/R, Marlin X-Over, Rancho 99012's, 35" BFG AT KO, 414K miles. 1996 FZJ80 stock with 191K miles. 1980 FJ40 stock with 85K original miles.
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425674
04/05/04 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,153
Web Wheeler
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The proper order to do things is set up the pitman arm centered on the steering box, *then* adjust the drag link to keep the front wheels pointed straight ahead. That's why the drag link is adjustable. The pitman arm, while it can be put on different ways, is really not adjustable, per se. It has one way that works right.
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425675
04/05/04 04:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,986
Toyota Section Staffer
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I was unaware that an unaligned pitman would cause the pulling, never having had the problem- Roger's observation sure sounds like your problem. In addition I would double-check ALL of the guy's work, including the trunion bearing preload, given the things you describe.
-Bill '87 4Runner w/ '96 5VZ-FE, 'Red Chili II' '97 Taco XtraCab 3RZ-FE, 'BlackBean' TLCA # 13257, Rising Sun 4x4 Club Land Use Coordinator "He who stops being better stops being good." -Oliver Cromwell
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: Red_Chili]
#425676
04/06/04 05:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 113
OP
Wheeler
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My steering is now centered and tracks straight. Thank you for all the help. I was pretty lucky when I checked the pitman arm I just so happened to put it on there the right way on my last try. The steering wheel as it turns out was hooked up on center. I only had to adjust the draglink to center the pitman arm and steering wheel. I now have 2-1/2 turns to each side. It is so easy to turn now. I guess I should appreciate it now before I put on a front driveshaft and try to turn in 4wd with the front locker installed.
Bill I think you are right about me checking all of the other things they did. I still need to dial in my front springs before I try any adjustments to caster.
Thanks again for the help.
Chris Sutton Golden, Colorado
1985 Toyota 4Runner - Longfields, 5.29's, EZ Locker F/R, Marlin X-Over, Rancho 99012's, 35" BFG AT KO, 414K miles. 1996 FZJ80 stock with 191K miles. 1980 FJ40 stock with 85K original miles.
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Re: Pitman Arm?
[Re: ad54runner]
#425677
04/06/04 02:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,986
Toyota Section Staffer
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So, lessee... Roger saved you the biggest part of the alignment at ~$50, so on a beer-to-buck conversion, he gets 3 Newcastles. I only get a Hefe Proper, but that's OK with me, I fall asleep after 2 beers. C'mon by http://risingsun4x4club.org/ , and visit a meeting, you'll find lots of help with such things as you are struggling with. Plus some great trail runs.
-Bill '87 4Runner w/ '96 5VZ-FE, 'Red Chili II' '97 Taco XtraCab 3RZ-FE, 'BlackBean' TLCA # 13257, Rising Sun 4x4 Club Land Use Coordinator "He who stops being better stops being good." -Oliver Cromwell
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