If you are running an automatic the turbo motor is a drop in on the 4 speed auto. If you have an older 3 speed auto the bolt pattern is differant (86 and older).

The 4 speed auto is pretty strong and the 4 cyl unit is very similar to the V6 auto.

The V6 auto has a lock up converter (most likely phased in somewhere in late 89- early 90).

Improvments to the transmission.

As Eddy pointed out you must have the throttle cable hooked up. No throttle cable = fried transmission from slippage.

The 4 cyl transmission can use the line pressure regulator spring from the V6 to get a higher line pressure to improve shifts and reduce the chance of slippage. This is an internal part in the valve body. you can also shim the spring a little bit. I would not bother shimming the V6 spring.

It is also possible to use a V6 tranny if you bolt the 4 cyl bell housing on it. This gets you a lock up converter on the 4 cyl. The vehicle will run cooler on the highway and get better fuel economy. The taller the tires you run the more important this is (more load on the drive line = more converter slippage= more heating & worse fuel economy).

Kevin C

Compression ratio:

The 7 to 1 cr on the stock turbo motor will work just fine. However you can safely raise it to 8 to 1 for a bit more low end torque and better fuel economy. You will need to run 91 octane.

Rasing yourt CR past 8.5 can be dicey. You will be boost limited and the gains vs the risk may not be worth it.

If you are converting a carb motor to to a turbo you will need to use a detonation sensor. Not all blocks have a boss for this. Most 87 and newer have this and its even tapped.

What you wont have if you use a carb motor's engine block is the piston coolers. These are oil squirters that spray the bottom of the piston to reduce piston temperature. If you want to run a signifigant amount of boost you should have these. A guess is up to six psi boost if you dont have to have them. Past that... let me know how it worked.

The piston coolers can be added to any motor that has the detonation sensor boss (turbo block). I used a bridgport mill and some extended cutters to spot-face drill and tap for them.

Since a decent block may be hard to find this may be a good option.

Kevin C

Starion ignition system

There are a couple of dizzy types, so some of this is only specific to the one I have (85 Conquest).

The Starion dizzy is quite similar to the Monties, but the vac advance can has two functions, and the igniter is not in the dizzy in the Starion (it's in the spark box). In this dizzy, the centrif advance moves the rotating part of the sensor (the 4 toothed wheel) against rotation to give advance. The "vac" can moves the stator part (the reluctor, I guess) in both directions. It supplies ignition advance under manifold vacuum, and ignition retard under turbo boost. All these functions are strictly mechanical, as opposed to the electronic advance games we are about to look at.

The starion has a knock or spark box, either a black plastic box or a cad plated metal box about the size of a pack of playing cards. This box contains the igniter, which senses the change of voltage sign as the a/c generator in the dizzy (the star wheel, reluctor, and coil thingy) passes thru zero votage on its way from + to -, and - to +. When the box senses this phase change (I don't know how, it's a "black box", remember?), it interrupts the coil's primary - terminal connection to ground, triggering the magnetic field collapse in the coil, which generates the huge secondary votage of the ignition spark. The knock box also monitors the extremely weak piezoelectric signal from the detonation sensor when a shock wave from a detonating cylinder hits the quartz crystal inside the sensor (the piezpelectric effect is one in which a mineral - a quartz crystal - gives off an electrical current when compressed, as when the shock wave front hits it - or when a mechanical noise of the right intensity hits it, more on this later). This very weak signal (route det sensor wire away from plug wires, or other noisy electrical sources) travels thru a shielded wire to the knock box. when it hits a programmed threshold level, the knock box intervenes in the timing to retard the spark further electronically, seperate from the mechanical advance/retard systems noted above. There is also a failsafe mode, in which the knock box throws in some huge spark retard (12-20 degrees), killing power, when it doens't see any signal fromt the det sensor. Very good contact is necessary to conduct the det sensor signal thru the connectors - both signal and shield wire run thru the connector. A mechanically noisy engine (whacking lifters, slapping pistons, bad idler pulley bearings, spapping b/shaft chains or timing chains, etc.) can trigger the det sensor threshold, killing engine performance even in the absence of detonation, just by retarding the spark. Early model (< 86.5) MAP sensors also incorporated a pressure switch that causes the knock box to kill engine spark when boost goes above 14.5psi. This also kills fuel delivery, because the ecu uses the tach signal from the coil - to time injection and read engine rpms - no spark means no fuel either. It's like slamming into a thick mud pit at full wot acceleration, or a short field landing in a C-130 when the pilot goes to full reverse prop pitch just as the wheels touch. Full tilt WHOA.

Some Starion coils use a ballast resistor to cut coil voltage. The resistor is bypassed in ign. start position to get a stronger spark for cranking. I use an Accel Super Sport coil, about $39 at AutoZone, without a ballast resistor, and have strong spark up to 6k. Some Starion systems have spark fade above 5k.

I run a NO pressure switch on the oil pressure circuit that kills spark below about 25psi by interrupting the coil + wire, with a switched bypass that I've never had to use. This also assures you have at least 25psi of oil pressure before it will fire off, saving some cold start wear. It also assures that if the oil pressure drops while you are negotiating the I285 Grand Prix in Atlanta and not paying attention to the gauges, you won't lunch the engine, which is the primary purpose of the system. Similar to an oil pressure idiot light but it breaks a circuit instead of opening one.

The B-38 connector is the graft point for the starion system into the Monty. It's on the Starion harness, and I think it lives in the Starion under the glove box, but the manuals on cd I have (88 Conquest) are missing the harness layout pages 8-36 and 8-37 (and I'd love to have a scanned copy at the best resolution you've got of those!). I do have the circuit diagrams, and here's the basic wiring you need to do. All wire color codes reference the ecu side of the B-38 connector, a male 14 pole connector. L is blue, B is black, Lg is light green and the others are evident. First letter of the color code is main wire color, second is color of tracer stripe(s)The number is the mm2 cross sectional area of the wire - bigger is fatter, no # is 1mm2 xsect. area. Orient the plug so the L (blue) wire is at the center top position. That's #4. Number l>r and t>b.

1 not used
2 2-BY Necessary - [color:"red"] wire to ign switch start position 12V+ [/color]
3 1.25-B Necessary - wire to Batt. + with fuse protection
4 2-L Necessary - wire to ign sw. On position 12v+
5 not used
6 RB necessary?? - wire to Batt 12v+ w/ fuse = amps of SQ multipurpose fuse
7 not used
8 (first of bottom row) LgB not needed - used in SQ for faking the boost pressure on the LED gauge
9 YG optional but nice to have - wire to Monty speedo reed switch circuit*
10 not used
11 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
12 BR nice to have - trouble code output - wire a jumper wire to put it in reach, and use a voltmeter to read the trouble codes (all 6 of them)
13 not used
14 not used

If you can when you get the donor stuff, get about 6" of the hrness and the other half of the B-38 connector, so you have a plain butt splice. The old Monty carb ecu connector will have many of the various 12v+ inputs you need. Consult your Monty manual for the pin out, and you can use the ecu harness side of that connector with a few inches of wire to make the butt splices to the 6" of wire on the female half of the B-38 connector noted above.

* Try getting a pulsed 12v signal on the yellow wire at the 4wd indocator light relay box on the C-28 connector at the box on the passenger side footwell wall or the C-6 connector at the rear of the instrument cluster (on an 87 Monty) for this connection.

My Quest was already partially disassembled when I got it. Looks to me that the turbo oil return is to the PS side of the oil pan. Nothing on my timing cover. Where is the boss to drill and tap? Looks like that may it at about 12:00 on the front face of the cover?

No.

It's on the passenger side of the timing cover. Even timing covers without the nipple should have a round boss with a sunken center, fairly high. The Starion stuff I have case a lazy c shaped hose from the big nipple on the bottom of the turbo center housing to a matching o.d. nipple x mipt, with the timing cover drilled and tapped to fit the mipt. Constant downhill slope is absolutely necessary, because you want no impediment to oil drain back. The oil circuit is via steel line from oil cooler adapter to top of turbo center housing, entering main poil gallery that feeds (1) double oil film shaft bearings - 100krpms here!, and (2)thrust plates, with the bleed off oil drining into the open area of the center housing, hopefully not hitting the shaft (windage losses), and out the drain nipple. Any obsturction to flow can pool up the oil in the housing, killing turbo rotation and letting the oil coke up in the extreme heat from the exhaust side. It's a water cooled housing, but it still gets HOT in there, and even hotter if you don't let it idle down in temp some (the only reason for a turbo timer, and a good one). This coking is the reason for the short oil change intervals on the turbo motors, along with more blow-by from higher pressured combustion.

Duh! It's so close to the water pump that I when I glanced at it I thought it was for a heater line. (I didn't see in the FSM where the non-turbo end ran to.)

Thx <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Hi fella's I'm back!
Not back in the states though.
This is the first time I have seen this turbo write up, and I wanted to comment on the B-38 connecter, I have some nice detailed pictures on the forum somewhere of the connection and where it goes in the truck, should make the job a little clearer.
Chris

Chris's write up is here

Run a search on user name okred, and subject "38" and date newer than a year for more on his successful conversion.

Hey guys, I dont have a raider/tero but i do have a starion and know a fair share. If something comes up you need answered just let me know. Everything ive read here so far seems correct. I didnt like the part about using hyper U pistons though. Big no no on turboed engines in my eye. I would stick with forged, JE or wiseco makes them. Wiseco is limited to 8:1 comp but JE are custom to what you want.
86 would be a year to avoid for a swap. Block is the same and everything mechanical is the same(mech advance weights are different on intercooled models, they have more advance) but the electronics are a cluster. It uses the MAS and air temp in the mas like the others but has an additional air temp in the ovcpipe. It runs sequetial injection like the 85 and older. 87 and up like was mentioned used pri/sec setup. 83 was totally different as well. as far as TB and injector housing. pin out on the ecu is different from other years as well. I appologize if this was covered, I skimmed through most of it. For the valve train setup. earlier cars are better. the later years, i believe 86+ used hyd lifters. pre 86 used a mechanical setup. Needs more adjustment but is better. Roller rockers fit off of a few other cars but i dont have the list infront of me. If I was gonna go through a swap like this i wouldnt waste my time with the stock starion fuel system. I would use a stand alone. Ive built a megasquirt unit but there are tons of other options for the more financially enabled, but imo the MS unit is better then most for a small fraction of the price.

Like i said. let me know if i can help with any info.


matt