Tell that to the Auto-Zone's, Advanced Auto's, Checkers and every other chain store out there. I swear I've returned thier parts more than I've installed them.

I don't mind paying for quality stuff but the dealership parts departments have the least convient hours. And I always get stuck buying something from one of those chain stores....usualyl to return it a few days later. I remember when autoparts stores were owned and run by people who liked cars and cared about the products they sold....Now all you get is "Jimmy" the high school drop out who's more interested in being pissed off at people than he is at getting a customer the right part.

I actually will drive 20 miles out of my way to go to the one non-chain autoparts store nearest me, just so I can atleast say hello to someone who atleast has a clue as to what the underside of a car looks like.

Personally, I boycott all of the chain stores....let them go out of bussiness....I want the mom and pop stores back.

And Ohhh yeah....I guy I knew years ago (who was a pro engine builder) was contracted by one of the major oil companies to do testing on oils, filters and oil additives. The results: He wouldn't put anything else but Penzoil in his cars, all the major brand oil filters tested about the same....and stay away fom the teflon oil additives...they're bad snake oil.

You actually want the oil to ***** on you. you don't want a dry filter. Think about it for a minute. If the filter is dry when you start your engine, it has to re-fill before proper flow can begin. Oil in filter = Wood, No oil in filter = Floppy dog <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

The genuine Yota filter is the one that has the pre-greased o-ring with the plastic protective wrap on it....no other filter goes to that trouble. They rule. Also, the Delco filter is a good one. Trust the blue but stay clear of orange <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Checkers and AutoBone will always be in business even with the crap they sell because of the 'clientel' they attract. You are safe buying the starting fluid there though <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sad but true...however if us people who want quality parts band together and boycott them...we can do some damage and maybe change the 'quantity is better than quality' sales phylosophy that those corporation operate under.

Ok regardless of the issue with fram's being a bad filter what is going on that causes filters to come out empty? I just changed my oil and pulled out the first NAPA Gold filter i have ever used and it was bone dry??? the engine had been off for an hour or two. I thought they were supposed to be great filters?

doesnt an anti-drainback valve keep oil in it and not llow the oil flow passages to go empty? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

Yes and no.

First you have to look at how a filter is constructed and how it works. The dirty oil comes in right at the shell. It then goes through the paper circle, and out through the hollow center tube. The anti-drain back valve is around the permiter of the filter. The thing you see up in the end of the tube is actually the pressure relief valve, not the anti-drain back valve. Keep that in mind for a second.

When you turn the engine off and let it sit for a while, the oil in the galley continues to drain through the bearings and such. The crankshaft is down low, lower then the filter. So the oil in the center tube drains on out through the crankshaft bearings. The sloppier the bearings, the faster it drains. The thinner the oil viscosity, the faster it drains.

The oil filter is completely full of oil when the engine is running. When turned off, the oil in the center tube drains out slowly through those bearings as described. The oil outside the filter paper will slowly travel through the paper. It will do so until it reaches the bottom of the center tube and can no longer drain out through the crankshaft bearings.

At that point, the only oil left in the filter is the oil that is below the center tube. The anti-drainback valve is holding that oil from draining back through the oil pump. That is all the anti-drain-back valve does. It prevents oil from draining out through the oil pump, and the oil pump from losing prime as a result of that.

At no point, in no engine, does the anti-drain back valve prevent an oil filter from draining oil through the crankshaft bearings, and any other bearing or orifice that is below the oil filter.

So to the shock of many, the anti-drain back valve has nothing to do with why an oil filter can be rather empty several hours after the engine has been shut off.

I've used Toyota, Fram, Mobil 1, and Napa Gold and not once have I ever had one come off dry, and I usually change my oil after the truck has been sitting for a long time. It seems to me this is a problem specific to the 4 cyl engines for some reason. Is it possible there is some kind of weird back pressure going on with the 22re that pushes the oil out of the filter as the engine cools down?

not sure of how current this information is, but here's a treasure trove of objective data on oil filters:
Oil Filter Study

YMMV,
/natebear

Page last updated in june 2000.

Edit
4/20/03 last modified

When I get a chance, I'll measure the amount of filter material in both the Fram & the NAPA filter. I believe I cut apart 8 different oil filters...all with the same cross reference. I will use NAPA. I will also get a Fram Tough Guard and check that one also.

I know the regular Frams are just some pieces of cardboard for ends and a bit of filter material inbetween with an inferior anti-drainback valve...if its even able to be called that. The NAPA filter is all metal construction inside other then the filter material itself. Everything is nice and hefty.

Now granted, this is just my views from my experiences & research....not trying to cause battle... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />