DougH's posted issues with this. I am seeing some of the same with the upper A arms. As far as I know we are the only ones going with the ball joint flip. Doug, I believe you also said you are using a very hard shock up front as well...

Could the damage being inflicted on the A arm bolts, shaft, loosening of shims, etc be due not only to the change in geometry with a a cranked Tbar and BJ flip, but even more so because of the very hard shocks?

I'll vouch the front end on mine hardly feels good for the car. The KYB Monomax's as I've posted in another thread are impossible to compress - unless you put all your weight on them and twist them - and at that rate progress is very slow. With such a lack of absorption my new theory is all that shock is going directly to the Upper A arm, bending the bolts, bending the pivot shaft on the drivers side, and perhaps in Doug's case, knocking loose the shims.

Am I onto something or on something <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, I'm just looking for a rational reason to get those shocks off and slap on some Rancho 9000's. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/coolg.gif" alt="" />

If the shocks are that stiff, I'd think the impact loads would be transferred from the lower A-arm, through the shock, to the upper shock mount. The flipped ball joint might put a slight additional moment (twisting force) on the A-arm bolts from the knuckle as it moves up & down.

Actually I think your onto it where your diagram mentions the upper arm offset, but remember with my Tbars cranked those arms are at at 4.5 o'clock or so <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I would think the shock load is going from the knuckle to the bolts at an angle - wanting to shear the 10 grade bolts and getting as far as bending them.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I know it may seem very difficult to compress the shock, but that's not how the shock works when it's on the car.

The torsion bars are MUCH harder to compress, and they are what hold up the weight of the truck. When the shock works, it just controls the rebound created from the torsion bars unloading...so it's the *pulling out* of the shock that is the working motion, not the compression of the shock.

I'm sure you already knew this...but it seems like a shock is hard to compress sometimes. But when compared to the spring or the torsion bar, the shock is very easy to compress. It takes much more force to compress a spring or T-bar, so I would suspect any damage from an overly stiff front suspension would more rightly be attributed to the spring mechanism (over-loaded and cranked T-bars) rather than the shocks, since shocks aren't designed to support load on compression as the springs/T-bars are.

However, in this case, I think many people (like me) have cranked T Bars with no related front end damage. So maybe it IS the geometry change that's causing strange forces to wreak havoc on the front end parts??

I think my problems are coming from my alignment mechanics, at least as far as my camber bolts go.

I torqued them down myself and went on a rough trail ride, and they stayed tight.

I took the truck to Firestone (I have lifetime alignment there) and they did a (so so) alignment. The next day (after driving 500 miles) I did some mild wheeling but no big obstacles. I notice the symptoms of a loose camber bolt and what do you know, on is loose.

I torque back to spec and continue to wheel for the next two days, abusing it on unnecessary optional lines and obstacles. Low and behold, since I touched the bolts, they stay tight and to spec.

I dont think there is a casual relationship between the balljoint flip and problems, versus tbar crank only and no problems. It doesn't take into account that people with the mod want a little extra out of the setup, and tend to be much rougher on their trucks. I cant vouch for Bretwalda, but I may be on of the hardest persons on their truck on this forum (Lloyd?).

How many people have actually ripped the steering column of their truck while wheeling. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

And just for correction, I run the stock (and original) shocks up front, and monomax shocks in the rear. The factories are just about shot so that rules the stiff shock theory out for me.

Doug,

Are there any photos or writeups of the BJ flip? I'm curious as to *exactly* what is involved, and also exactly what is gained by performing this modification.

Is there a substantial amount of travel to be gained by doing this? I'm not very familiar with front end parts so it's hard for me to visualize.

I have to replace a bunch of stuff up there soon...my steering is vague to say the least, and I've got some good squeaks coming from the suspension. So if this mod allows for more lift or travel, I'd certainly consider it!

SCM, a BJ flip won't fly on our GenIs. Ours are pressed on. GenIIs are bolted.

PHIL

SCM. Like Phil said it is a genII only modification. After all the hoopla over the mod when I first brought it up I wont tell any one how to do the mod.

It is very very straight forward when you look at a genII arm.

The mod redoes the front end design, and the built in redundant safety feature, so if people want to do it they should figure it out and decide on their own without my encouragement.

I gotcha. I'll just have to go on living while cursing the IFS on the GenI. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" />

Ya know I was thinking, I agree the bj flip is scary to look at when its done - a better alternative - I dont know and I certainly dont have the tools or connections to do it...

...but with a good cutting torch you could hack off part of the stops on the frame and reweld it. Anyone ever try it?

Offhand I can't think of any new problems that would arise as a result.