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Re: Power upgrades [Re: socalmonty] #486510 08/10/04 08:32 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,132
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Kevin C Offline
Trail Leader
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Actually the turbo setup from the starion has a wonderful powerband for offroading, with full boost coming in at around 2800 rpm...


Well, stock, I agree with you. It has almost the exact same peaks as the V6 does! However, once you *modify* it, you are going to shift the HP peak higher and higher, running the RPM's up to take advantage of the raised boost pressure. At that point, I'd prefer a weaker V6 with a less peaky powerband.



No.... Turning up the boost does not shift the basic power band. That is determined by the profile of the cam, port size, turbo matching.... ect.

Putting in a turbo that does not spool up as soon (larger unit) will shift when boost comes in.

A longer duration cam will shift the rpm band up.

There is a small shift since the rpm where 12 psi is availible is ever so slightly higher or has a bit longer delay than 10 psi.

In my experiance its a very small diff...

Kevin


87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
Re: Power upgrades [Re: socalmonty] #486511 08/10/04 08:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Just a couple of things to note and a couple of clarifications.

Mitsu only used one size turbo stock on the 2.6 - the TD05-12A. There was a dealer installed sport turbo option for a TD05-14G. The 12A had about 365cfm at 15psi of boost, and the 14G had about 460 at 15psi. As a rough and ready rule of thumb, you need 1.5cfm/hp. The 12 is good for about 240hp max, and the 14 is good for about 300hp. I've driven a 14G in an i/c Starion, and the spoolup is indistinguishable from a 12A, which comes in VERY early. There is turbo lag with an m/t, but NO discernable lag with an a/t. It just feels like a good torquey small block coming off the line. The a/t doesn't even downshift on steep freeway grades unless you get all the way into the loud pedal. It cruises at 3400rpm (about 85mph) showing about 1-2psi of boost on the Autometer gauge.

This swap is the MOST bang for your buck with a 2.6, on- or off-road. The only fab is exhaust, which makes it also one of the easiest engine swaps I've ever seen. I'll run 2.5" loud pipes all the way out on my next incarnation, with a hi-flow cat and Magna-Flo straight thru muffler.

The stock Monty 3 row radiator is 50% bigger than the biggest Starion radiator, and handles the cooling just fine. It would probably be more than enough for anything but a full bore small block, since the hp #'s are just about equal, and radiator heat shed requirements are a function of hp.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Power upgrades [Re: Kevin C] #486512 08/10/04 10:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 715
socalmonty Offline
Rock Warrior
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No.... Turning up the boost does not shift the basic power band. That is determined by the profile of the cam, port size, turbo matching.... ect.


Kevin,

Notice I didn't say anything about only getting a MBC and raising the pressure a couple PSI. I was talking in general about a modified engine, built for power. A ported head, taller cam, 3" turbo-back exhaust, larger turbo, etc. That Turbo 2.6 can make 350+hp if you so desire, I've seen it before in a Starion with a factory block and head (IIRC, the dyno showed 379 to the rear wheels, or roughly 447 hp at the crank). This most certainly brings the powerband into the "not worth-while" area for everyday driving and off-roading.

Granted, very few (if any) people on this board want to go that route, and build an uber high-HP/TQ Raider, but if I were to go through the trouble of an engine swap, I'd "go big or go home" as the saying goes. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I also remember seeing a Suzuki Samurai w/ a 3-Rotor Mazda engine at a dragstrip in Puerto Rico...IIRC that Samurai ran 11-second quarter miles! Again, this has little to no use off-road, but man, it sure would be fun to surprise the heck outta people light to light in a stock-looking Montero packing a 3.3L Supercharged/Intercooled beast, or a stock-looking Raider with a 2.6L Turbo tuned to 18psi! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Anywho...yes, the powerband itself on a stock 2.6L Turbo would be fine for rock crawling. My personal issue with it is the throttle response and feel; I'd rather have the crisp response of a well-tuned N/A for dirt and rocks. This is doubly true if it had a manual trans.

On the open highway, however...the turbo would do me just fine. I'm actually shopping for a turbocharged car at the moment for my next "project." A Volvo wagon. Can you say "sleeper?" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


Sean - Orange County, CA
MAIL: seanwilliams78@gmail.com
1995 Montero SR - For exploring and getting away!
1994 Volvo 850 Turbo - 402hp and counting!
1966 VW Bug 2275cc - For stoplight drags!
Re: Power upgrades [Re: socalmonty] #486513 08/11/04 03:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Quote
I'd rather have the crisp response of a well-tuned N/A for dirt and rocks.


Guess it's a matter of taste. I like a slower surge of power when sorting my way thru dirt and rocks for better control. I also like the instant whiplash of a hot NA or supercharged motor.

BTW, you can sure "sleeper" a lot of people with a plain jane 2.6 turbo - rear bumper really needs one of those "You just got smoked by a 4cyl SUV" stickers


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Power upgrades [Re: fasteddy] #486514 08/11/04 06:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 715
socalmonty Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote
rear bumper really needs one of those "You just got smoked by a 4cyl SUV" stickers


THAT would be hilarious! My license plates on my last 4-cyl sports car read "4LBEAT8" (Four will beat eight). Needless to say, I was hassled by every Camaro and Mustang owner unlucky enough to assume my car was slow. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My plates before that said "URIN 2ND" (You are in second.). I love to annoy people. And yes, the car was fast enough to warrant the tags. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


Sean - Orange County, CA
MAIL: seanwilliams78@gmail.com
1995 Montero SR - For exploring and getting away!
1994 Volvo 850 Turbo - 402hp and counting!
1966 VW Bug 2275cc - For stoplight drags!
Re: Power upgrades [Re: socalmonty] #486515 08/11/04 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
I love sleepers. I once got stopped by a GA State Trooper who said he clocked me at 85 in a 55 zone. It was a rather steep uphill, and he only gave me a warning, because he said "I used to own one of those, and it just wouldn't go that fast uphill, so I'll give you a break this time....". I managed to bite my tongue and keep from saying "But it's got a turbo!". Self restraint is the real key to success.....


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Power upgrades [Re: fasteddy] #486516 08/12/04 04:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,356
MontyMcV Offline
Trail Leader
So you didn't spool it up as he headed back to the cruiser then...??? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


Big Truck: 00, 3.5, Endeavor, 5-Spd drive line in hand!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6T I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top
Her Truck: 03, 3.8, 20th Anniv, 65k
Daughter's: 06 Eclipse, Keeping it Mitsu!
FSMs: MitsubishiLinks.com
Re: Power upgrades [Re: socalmonty] #486517 08/12/04 07:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,992
JAVYPRO Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Quote
Quote
No.... Turning up the boost does not shift the basic power band. That is determined by the profile of the cam, port size, turbo matching.... ect.


I also remember seeing a Suzuki Samurai w/ a 3-Rotor Mazda engine at a dragstrip in Puerto Rico...IIRC that Samurai ran 11-second quarter miles!


Hi gang, I haven't been here in a while due to tons of things to do. But I saw Puerto Rico and remembered something about Mitsubishi in my little island, The Sakura is a drag Mitsu mirage using a 2.6L turbo engine generating over 1k hp and clocking 7.5sec in the 1/4 mile!!! that is one awesome 2.6L who said they can't make power!!! of course this is after plenty of $$$ and buku mods but still is a 2.6L Mitsu eng. and is not anywere useful for 4x4 but isn't that impresive? It is currently the fastest 4 cyl in the world <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Also found out on my rescent trip that all these turbo conversions in Civics and Mirages/Lancer (not Evo) receive a Montero Gen II computer as a transplant, why? I do not know i will have to research on that.


88 red Montero with the Dakar Special Edition decals, 438,000 miles (As of 7/23/2012) some occational blue puffing but still strong and counting!!! I am going ppsshhh (turbo), Stay tuned =) ...
Re: Power upgrades [Re: JAVYPRO] #486518 08/12/04 07:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
I did NOT spool it up - drove away with the proverbial egg between foot and go pedal, lift throttle upshifts, made it look like it sputtered on accel, and happily watched the blue/gray Ford go median jumping after a passing 'neck doing about 120 in a 67 Super Bee, lacy with rust and killing mosquitos, but that 383 was howlin'. I do love a decoy.... I was back up to 85 in about 12 seconds, uphill.......


Not responsible for advice not taken...
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