Gary,

Thanks for getting us back on line with ARB.

Just a side note, if I remember right, the front diff carrier is the same part number as the rear. Meaning, if we get ARB to make a locker for the front, then it will fit in the back too. This way we'll be able to get ARB's both front and rear.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. Because, if I'm right, this could mean 2X sales for ARB in a lot of applications.

I personally installed the Eaton LSD into the rear of my 1998 KIA Sportage, and it was one of the easiest installs I've done. Looking at the front, it should be almost as easy, except for the added part of the front axel shafts removal and reinstallation.

Dave is the one who can tell us how easy it was.

I'd like to know what kind of cost we are looking at before ponying up my money. However, if price is even close to right, I'm in.

IÆll find it hard to believe if ARB canÆt find a match to our application in all their other application of the 4x4 vehicles out on the market. IÆm hopeful that a match can be found to help reduce cost on this project.

Gary, I'm going to e-mail ARB later to let him know I'm very interested to know cost on this potential product and I would expect everyone else here to do the same even if they don't have a need or desire for this product. We all need to stick together and speak louder together even if only a few of the voices are going to reap the rewards.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

Logan,

I don't think the front third member is indentical to the rear, otherwise some of us would have a front Eaton limited slip differential. At very least the ring and pinion gears would likely be reversed. (I'm hoping you're right, though, and not me. I still think that at least one of us would have installed a front Eaton if that were the case.)

Actually... I think this same topic (front third member being = rear third member) was covered way long ago (and I'm much too lazy to find out via a search... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/drunk.gif" alt="" />), but I think we concluded that it either it was not possible or they were not identical. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Logansportage,





Thanks for the encouragement, but the only way they can build it is if it is financially viable. Unfortunately that means people right now, with money in their hands, not 6, 12, 18 months or two years from now, but an absolute comittment 1-2 months from now, with at least a meningful deposit now.

I am sure that once we have a financially viable number of people on board they will consider keeping the design current for sales later, but we need (at a guess, and to be confirmed) 5-20 people prepared to commit.

Gary -

I sent your guys an e-mail a couple days ago, when you first posted this thread, and have yet to hear back from either of them. I figured the sales guy would be all over it, LOL. Just an FYI.

Good news, bad news

From Daniel:

------------


If it does turn out as a Suzuki 26 spline then that's half the battle.

Unfortunately you would need to secure almost 100 deposits in order to guaranty an all-new model build.
That would guaranty us at least a partial return on our tool-up.
Other then that, assuming we have the spline, any interest at all will help the possibilities.
Is there anybody in your forum group who has a ring gear off of one who could measure the inside diameter and the pitch circle diameter (i.e., the furthest centre distance between 2 bolts).
It may take a couple weeks before I can get somebody onto pulling your assembly down for measurements.

BTW, the 1.07" to 1.078" thing is simply the measurement over the top land of the tooth anyways.
It's rarely very accurate as most good splines are rolled on.
We only use it because most people have the ability to measure this dimension.
I could tell you that the Vitara spline is a 26 tooth, 1 module, 45? pressure angle, class 5, fillet root spline (enough info to manufacture that spline) but I doubt most people could verify that for us.

I might have a Suzuki shaft in our archives somewhere (if you don't) to try it into your sample assembly.

I'll keep you posted.

-daniel

====================================================
Daniel J Bongard (MEng)
====================================================
Engineering Supervisor
ARB 4x4 Accessories, AUSTRALIA
http://www.arb.com.au
Email: dbongard@arb.com.au
Tel: +61 (3) 9761 6622
Fax: +61 (3) 9721 9415
====================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Campbell
To: Daniel Bongard
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: KIA SPORTAGE FRONT AIR LOCKER


Daniel,

There has been a bit of confusion in our group, but it may in fact help us and you. It would appear that the front differential may be a 26 spline unit across all years (the Kia part numbers for the assembly are listed as the same throughout all years of manufacture). This would mean that the original Idea of modifying a Vitara differential may be a goer. I will try to source an axle from a Suzuki this week and drop it in to you (or have it dropped in) to see if it will fit into my diff splines. If that works, we may have short circuited some development time and costs.

The 26-28 spline difference seems to only apply to the rear differential, as described in my previous email.

Please feel free to completely disassemble the Kia differential for all the measurements needed and an absolute verification of spline count.

Regards

Gary Campbell

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Bongard
To: gkcampbl@bigpond.net.au
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: KIA SPORTAGE FRONT AIR LOCKER


Hi Gary,

I have your diff sample and I will have it measured to put through our database to match it against current designs.
The fact that you claim the spline to be Ï27 x 28 tooth suggests that this is a spline that we have not previously tooled up for.
Unfortunately the tooling to cut a side gear spline is a very expensive unit that we have custom made for us overseas, which means that a diff model would have to represent a significant number of sales in order for us to break even on the upstart costs.

In other words, you may need to find several KIA mates willing to commit to a purchase.

I'll keep you posted on what I find.

Best regards,

daniel

====================================================
Daniel J Bongard (MEng)
====================================================
Engineering Supervisor
ARB 4x4 Accessories, AUSTRALIA
http://www.arb.com.au
Email: dbongard@arb.com.au
Tel: +61 (3) 9761 6622
Fax: +61 (3) 9721 9415
====================================================

Hi Gary,

Did you ask if they make any thing with 28 splines that might be close to 27mm?

I couldn't find any in their application guide but they still might have the tooling.

It looks like their RD72, RD74, RD79 and RD88 have similar splines to our front axles (or older REAR axles). One of those lockers might be close enough to the Sportage to use with minor re-machining. There is also the possability that another of their lockers might be closer to the Sportahe but would need the splines changed.

Another possability might be that one of their lockers might be a closer match to the sportage REAR with modifications. If a rear locker is more suitable to be adapted with 26 splines, then the owners of newer sportages would only need to get new axle shafts.

Hi Gary,

Would it be of any help for me to cut the stub axle off of one of my half shafts and send it down to you?

REAR:
Firstly, from my communications with ARB it would seem that the "big ticket (ie big $$$)" items in the locking differentials are the splined sidegears. Tooling up for them and production is done by a third party and supplied to ARB. So it would seem it would be easier to get rear axles made to suit the splines that they have, in the nearest size differential that can be modified in other dimensions to carry our ring and pinion dimensions/offset (if that makes sense).

Be aware that we are not talking about just the sidegear (if you were hoping to just send them one for inclusion in the diff), there is a locking ring machined on the back of the one of the sidegears, that is used to lock against the hemisphere, so the tooling and production of that particular item is a very complex operation (hence the cost).

FRONT:
I can source a halfshaft over here, and what I will be doing this week is also sourcing a Suzuki halfshaft to see if it will fit int the Kia diff. If it does then we are halfway home <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Gary,

From reading Daniel's email, I think he was saying that the tooling for the side gear splines was made over seas, not the side gears them selves. So If I got that right, and if the Suzuki splines are the same pressure angle and diametrical pitch as the Sportage, the whole diff could be built in house.

I wonder if the carrier bearings are the same size in both the Suzuki and the Sportage? I suppose that a few phone calls to NAPA or one of the gear and axle companies might answer that question quicker than waiting for ARB to disect your diff.

At this point, there seems to be no info as to whether it would be easier for ARB to build a front locker or a pre '94 rear locker, assuming the Suzuki splines will fit.



Dave,

While you are measuring my diff, don't forget to measure the inside of the ring gear and the ring gear mounting holes. Measuring the rear would be handy info to have too.

Could we leave that in your hands???







However.....the ring gears are larger, and therefore would need a different hemisphere and possibly different spider/sidegear set (assuming the hemisphere is larger dia -> larger gears, ie, "scaling up"). This may mean new axles would be the easiest/cheapest way to go if we use (for example) an 8" Toyota center in the rear. (27 spline I think)