We need an engineer to come along and explain that...where's Mr. Clark? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ok.... my tongue is still being chewed on for this topic.... but that better be a damn big cookie! Also, I'll need your mailing address, oh and how many magnets do you want in my alternator? Make sure you put a slice of bread in with the cookie, that will keep it from drying up in transit <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Peter

generator
im not sure how different generator and alternators are but they do the same thing right?

well weres my cookie?

kevan

Mike, this thread must be putting too much of a load on your brain power because you referenced me and I haven't said a word all this thread. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Well there is a proven electric supercharger on the market now. It's made by a guy who's been in the turbo business for years. I think the website is www.boosthead.com. I've been thinking about looking into this for small kicks of power. It's not meant to replace the belt driven supercharger or turbos, instead it's meant to be used like nitrous. I agree, there is no free power, however you can store electrical power in hi capacity batteries. One's like the Hawker Odysee can unload quite a bit of current very quickly. IIRC, the electric supercharger utilizes an Eaton supercharger mounted to three electric starter moters via a proprietary plate. It's real science and it really works, you just can't drive it directly off of the alternator.

I'm not going to say this won't work and I will say that I didn't look at the website very good, but from the picture I saw and the way you describe it, I can see both it working and not working.

The way you describe it, I can see it working. Having separate batteries to be able to have a motor big enough to spin a compressor fast enough to produce boost is possible. Then you could use the alternator to charge it back up as needed. A couple of diodes to keep backfeeding and you're all set. Now, here's the problems I see. First off a bank of batteries, three starters, the blower unit, and everything needed to set this thing up is going to add lots of weight. Adding weight is just like taking away horsepower. If the supercharger can over-come that weight, then fine, but from the looks of it, I don't see it happening. One other downfall I see is that a starter motor generally doesn't spin fast enough to run a compressor wheel to make any boost. Three of them isn't going to speed up the RPM, but will add the muscle needed to turn the blower. Now, starters generally are short draw motors. They get hot and tend to burn out if run for more than a few minutes or so at a time. Even if there were a gear box that over-drives the starters to the blower and could spin the rotors in the blower fast enough, the load on the starter motors go up the more you over-drive them. Just like any other electric motor, when you load them up, you draw more current. More current is going to drain your batteries quicker. Three starters drawing current is going to suck a battery dry in nothing flat. So, what? Add more batteries? Ok, every battery you add in parallel gives you that much more reserve cranking time for the starters... guess what? You are adding around 50lbs of weight each and every time you add a battery. 100 lbs is a 10th of a second in acceleration. Do you know how much HP it takes to add on to gain a 10th of a second? I can tell you it's a lot. So, by adding the weight, you not only have to make enough power to over come weight you just put in, you have to produce more power over and above that to make a power increase over what you started with...
I can see this working, but I don't see it working efficiently. Again, if it was that easy, racers would be using them and so would manufacturers.


On to the previous discussion about magnets and alternators.
Generators used on cars from maybe the mid-60's and back used generators. Generators did use magnets and were very big and inefficient. Alternators do not use magnets, as mlclark pointed out. They use an armature and a stator. The armature is the spun inside the stator which is where the fields are broken. As mlclark also stated, the fields must be charged. You can't just spin an alternator and produce current. You have to energize the alternator while it's spinning to be able to produce results. Generators, on the other hand, did not require energizing. Like a magneto, they just required that you spin them to produce electrical energy. A generator produces DC current. An alternator produces AC current. As he also stated, once the alternator produces the AC current, it's recitified in to DC and passed through a regulator to keep it's voltage in the range needed for automobiles (generally 13-14.5 volts). Do alternators and generators do the same thing? Well, yes and no. The end result is the same. As far as the end user is concerned, yes they do the same thing. As far as the scientific community and automobile mechanics who have to troubleshoot the problems, no, they are not the same.

how many magnets do you want in my alternator?

Don't worry, Peter. I've got your cookie, right here. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Try this, remove your alternator, smash it with a hammer and then find the pieces that pick up iron filings. Then, I will send you a cookie.

Michael

Mike, this thread must be putting too much of a load on your brain power because you referenced me and I haven't said a word all this thread.

Entirely possible, but you were THINKING about posting, so I just got the jump on you.

If Perosi had just been content to smoke his ciggies and accept my "because" answer that alternators work via magicical forces, then I would not have reached overload in trying to condense electrical theory into a single thread. And it was not a very good condensation, at that. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good Luck,
Michael

Whoah there, don't do that Peter! Michael, that's a $600 custom-built alternator that used to live in my 98 Amigo... And IIRC, Peter hasn't even paid me for it yet. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> At this point, tho, years later, all debts forgiven.

Anyway, thanks for the lengthy and in-depth explanation. That's exactly what I was begging and pleading for -- clarity even if it was a little dizzying. I wouldn't exactly call it ignorance of the laws of physics -- tho I would say comments like that are generally more appropriate over on Pirate... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> Regardless, that was the explanation I was trying to get out, with full awareness of more laws of physics than most people and a 4.0 GPA back in my days at Stevens. Don't forget I've challenged the laws of physics and lost more times than most people too. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> How many people can say they physically blew up 2 cars in 3 days without that being the intended goal?

-Chris

I wouldn't exactly call it ignorance of the laws of physics -- tho I would say comments like that are generally more appropriate over on Pirate...

Chris-

That was not my intention. If I came across like that, it was purely by accident. Electrical theory is very cool and it has varying levels of complexity. Magnetic fields and induction of current is semi-complex. Wrapping it into an alternator makes it more complex. Still cool, but it is like starting a book in the middle. There is a whole bunch that goes into the explanation that came before. I can also explain how your kidneys work, but for you to understand with any degree of depth, you need some biology background.

Anyway, I like breaking things down and explaining them. It helps me better understand things, it makes me look things up sometimes and I hope it might help someone else, somewhere.

Again, great discussion. There are a few details that would fill in the gaps, but I need to look them up. But, right now, it is 11PM on Halloween night, with a full moon and I just ate some dinner. Trust me, it has been one of the more bizarre weekends I have had and there was no alcohol or candy involved.....

Michael